lizbee: (Random: KGill is purdy)
[personal profile] lizbee
This one should be shared far and wide: the House of Representatives has a very short, very simple survey about marriage equality, ie, should we have it? Word is that it's so far been spammed by naysayers, so it would be cool if that could be turned around. The survey is here.

Date: 2012-03-17 11:47 pm (UTC)
tyger: Gwendal, facepalming. (Gwendal - facepalm)
From: [personal profile] tyger
*via network*

Thank you so much for letting me know! /had no idea about it. I've filled it out now, and wow those interim results are depressing. D: Will signal boost!

Date: 2012-03-18 12:48 am (UTC)
kerravonsen: 7th Doctor frowning: *frown* (frown)
From: [personal profile] kerravonsen
Is it spam just because you disagree with it? If the survey results were opposite to what they are, would you say that it's being spammed by yes-men? Of course you wouldn't, you'd say that it was a true and representative survey, because it says what you want it to say.
I'm sorry, but I'm getting a little upset at your loaded language here.

Date: 2012-03-18 01:55 am (UTC)
kerravonsen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kerravonsen
Ah. That's more understandable then.
My main concern with such legislation is that it preserve the right of ministers not to perform gay marriages, and so it's interesting that they put that question explicitly into the survey.

Date: 2012-03-18 01:43 am (UTC)
deird1: lilac flowers, with text "how do they rise up" (Default)
From: [personal profile] deird1
Thanks for letting me know!

Date: 2012-03-18 05:17 am (UTC)
capriuni: Text: If you want to be a Hero, be Good to the Storyteller. (Default)
From: [personal profile] capriuni
That argument that "If same-sex marriage is legalized, then ministers will be forced to perform marriage ceremonies that go against their faith is made here in the States, too, as a scare tactic...

And I just realized: It makes no sense.

If you are someone who is church-going, and God-Believing, and who happens to be openly gay and openly in love, you're going to get married in your own church... One that already accepts you and your partner. Of all the congregations available for you to belong to, you're not going to choose one that condemns your essence as sinful.

And if you can't find a welcoming congregation, you'll get married in the courthouse.

I mean, it's not like you're going to around like trick-or-treaters and search out a good, God-Fearing pastor to prank.

Unless I misunderstand the expectations of Fundamentalist Christians... Do they, in fact, search for Catholic churches for their weddings, and try to force them to perform Protestant ceremonies?

Date: 2012-03-19 12:43 am (UTC)
recessional: a cat peeks out of a desk (Default)
From: [personal profile] recessional
No, but some of them genuinely think YOU will. Some of them see this as a culture war wherein they are the downtrodden righteous and the other side are evil unholy bullies who will use the new state of the law as a club to profane their institutions and humiliate them and whose major concern is doing so.

They draw that in part from the fact that many equal-rights laws and practices do force people to do something they don't want to, or prevent them from doing something they do want to do: they require racist employers to hire, retain and treat employees not of their preferred race well* (theoretically), they deny homophobic employers the right to fire and harass their queer employees, they deny misogynist employers the right to sexually harass their female employees, etc, etc, etc. (Again: theoretically.)

A lot of fundamentalist Christians do not see the difference between the reasons someone doesn't "just quit" their job to avoid being made miserable by a bigoted colleague or boss, and the reasons someone might want to be married in their local congregation, even if the minister/denomination is dead set against same-sex marriage. What they see is that equal rights issues force some people to do things they don't want to or disallow them from doing things they DO want to, in the name of human rights.

And they're afraid.

And then I would say a substantially LARGER group of people know damn well how the situations are different and why, and dishonestly USE the fear and confusion/ignorance of the others and whip it up and intensify it, in order that this remain an issue, so that a person who more or less doesn't actually care about it even if they don't like "the gays" suddenly is in a froth because zie is afraid someone will come into ZIR space and FORCE this thing zie doesn't like on zir.


*slightly awkward phrasing due to the fact that depending where you are on the globe, the dividing line between races does not necessarily focus on white-vs-not-white.
Edited Date: 2012-03-19 12:44 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-19 07:01 pm (UTC)
lizvogel: Good / Bad (Good Bad)
From: [personal profile] lizvogel
I mean, it's not like you're going to around like trick-or-treaters and search out a good, God-Fearing pastor to prank.

I do actually know someone who goes around to local churches and loudly, deliberately disrupts the service when anything that could be interpreted as heteronormative comes up. Said person is quite proud of this behavior, and I could easily see them, were they to get married, trying to force some conservative pastor/minister/whatever to perform the ceremony. Not that this is in any way representative of 99.9% of the folks in favor of marriage equality, but it does give a real-world example for the opponents to point to. (Said person is also a jerk in ways unrelated to gender politics. Talk about someone you wish would get off your side....)

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