The most pathetic thing I have read all day

[lizbee]

It's not about her being intelligent, beautiful and knowing it, witty, sexy and brave. it's about her being all those things... at the same time! Sometimes, it's just too much. (and the same goes for River Song)

So here is a brief and incomplete list of women who are "too much":

My mum
My sister
My sister-in-law
Great Aunty Jim
piecesofalice
surburbannoir
baggers
bnharrison
rj_anderson
dear_prudence
sajee
weaver
yiduiqie
danni
sister_ananke
violetisblue
ladyvivien
aerialgrrrl
binnessface
binkabookitty
tapedeck
icegemini
purple_smurf
YOUR FACE
AND YOUR MUM

So ... yeah. Fuck that noise. As some of the women on that list would sooner eat their own tongues than say. If misogynists hate and fear fictional characters, imagine how much more terrifying and amazing real people are. And those are only the ones I could think of before dinner.

In conclusion: PJ Harvey - Sheela Na Gig

Comments

[selvage]

Arrrggghhhh facepalming so much.

(But yay being included on the list!) \o/

[lizbee]

The House o'Squid has been plotting to come up with a way to make you come down to Melbourne. We're just sayin'...

[selvage]

oh, do want! I might be able to afford it nearer to the end of the year... dependent on how my savings-for-america thing goes. *plots*

[rembrandtswife]

Now I know why they liked Rose so much.

(No disrespect to Billie Piper, who I am sure is awesome in her own right.)

[lizbee]

It's funny, actually, I always think Rose would have been a better character if the narrative had acknowledged her flaws and let her grow out of them, instead of letting them become pathological, then claiming they were virtues. That's not a bad character, that's bad writing.

(No disrespect to Billie Piper, who I am sure is awesome in her own right.)

I LOVE BILLIE SO. I finished her book feeling a lot of respect for her, which is not usually the outcome from reading autobiographies of former teen popstars.

[rembrandtswife]

Yes, and it's not bad acting, either, to do your best with what you've got in front of you.

(Sekritly, I like Nine/Rose and Nine/Rose/Jack. But that's fic that comes out of subtext, unlike Ten/Rose, which was TWU WUV IZ CANNON.)

[jaydeyn]

Oh Good GRIEF fandom. D:

D:
Jaydeyn

[renae.myopenid.com]

You forgot YOU!

I love your point. Some people are just... sheltered.

[purple_smurf]

As the person above me said: you forgot yourself!

This fandom is making me remember why I rarely check my Whoniverse filter on LJ, and left (or stopped watching... must make sure I'm no longer even a member) doctorwho in season 3. Also, fandom: I'm not meant to be listening to so much angry chick rock to cope with you, please stop it. (not that having PJ Harvey and Ani DiFranco on repeat isn't awesome, but...)

[purple_smurf]

...and I just went to the link, saw who made the comment, and clicked back. Yeah. I need to import a good *facepalm* icon for here.

[lilacsigil]

Sheela Na Gig is the perfect song for such an occasion - "You exhibitionist!"

[lizbee]

"HE SAID, WASH YOUR BREASTS, I DON'T WANT TO BE UNCLEAN!"

[geek_anachronism]

Dontcha know you can only have good attributes from one column? If you've got both brains and beauty you're a mary sue unbelieveable smug mcsmuggerton, if not you're a one dimensional tool.

Also, *blush*.

[lizbee]

If you've got both brains and beauty you're a mary sue unbelieveable smug mcsmuggerton, if not you're a one dimensional tool.

And it's completely unrealistic to portray women with graduate qualifications! Why, their ovaries would shrivel up!

Also, *blush*.

I almost included Bubs, but I thought maybe we'll wait until she learns to talk.

[geek_anachronism]

Oh god, not GRADUATE QUALIFICATIONS. TEH SMRTS, THEY BUUUUUUUUUUUURNS.

And Bub's wit currently consists of laughing at me if I hurt myself and blowing milky raspberries in my face if I do something like expecting her to sleep. Mind you, she will drag a book from one end of the loungeroom to the other to get you to read it so we're fairly impressed with the braining going on.

[syzygy_dw]

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever read. It is taking a supreme effort of will not to wade in there and start commenting like mad, because I know it won't solve anything, and will just bog me down in a flame-war that I will never get out of. Because I am in just the right mood these days to say something really incendiary.

My favourite response to that comment was that people get offended when you're too awesome. Ten tried to show how awesome he was, and people took offense and tried to shove him out an airlock! Yes, yes they did. And those people were specifically written to have a mob mentality, and they didn't come off looking so good, did they?

GAH.

[nonelvis]

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever read. It is taking a supreme effort of will not to wade in there and start commenting like mad, because I know it won't solve anything, and will just bog me down in a flame-war that I will never get out of. Because I am in just the right mood these days to say something really incendiary.

Exactly. I am sort of hoping I can find enough stuff to occupy me before I go into two hours of meetings this morning so that I don't respond to her absolutely mind-blowing stupidity.

[syzygy_dw]

Remember that story where Rose invites a complete stranger she thinks is drunk and who forcibly kisses her up to her flat for tea? They thought that was romantic and sweet. These are not the best judges of what is and isn't feminism.

[nonelvis]

... no points for guessing the name of the first person to leave a positive comment on that story.

[syzygy_dw]

That is fucking PRICELESS.

[such_heights]

Oh my god, that is just so sad.

[sqbr]

I wonder what these people think of Romana.

I did actually like the fact that Rose and Donna were fairly ordinary women (where the show went from there...not so much. And imo Martha was already extraordinary and just needed to realise it, which is different) But we've seen that plot twice! Time for something new!

[lizbee]

I wonder what these people think of Romana.

It involves phrases like, "stuck up dead bitch", if that's any help.

[rembrandtswife]

I would jump in there and defend Romana, only SHE DOES NOT NEED ANY HELP.

(Especially if she is my Personal Canon Mature!Romana played by Dame Judi Dench.)

[purple_smurf]

I approve of these thoughts and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[sqbr]

D:

*snugs Romana and Amy and River because they are awesome*

[lydaclunas]

Geez, the way these people act you'd think that Amy (or River) was the most outrageous and puke-worthy Mary Sue ever.

I mean, seriously.

You know, the Doctor is also supposed to be intelligent, witty, sexy and brave, all at the same time, not to mention the Last of His Species and Savior of Everything and Stuff. I don't see anyone complaining about how that's Too Much.

Well, I mean except for those of us who disliked Ten's ego and god-complex and the way everyone hero-worshiped him. But that really was too much.

[rj_anderson]

Jinx! Nice to know you and I are still brain twins.

[lydaclunas]

Haha, the hive mind strikes again!

[rj_anderson]

I am honoured to be on your list! Though I also agree with those who said you should be on it. BUT YOU ARE ON IT IN MY HEART.

It astounds me that the same people who whine that Amy is too perfect will then turn around and whine that she is not perfect enough. BECAUSE SHE IS SELFISH AND IMMATURE, YOU KNOW.

Proofs that Amy is not a Mary Sue: not everybody worships at her feet the moment they meet her (unlike Ten). She is not held up as a shining example for all subsequent companions to follow (unlike Rose). Also, she falls asleep on the table during important peace talks and lets Nasreen do all the negotiating, which I personally thought was a brilliant bit of characterization, but something that a Mary Sue would never do.

But of course I am talking to sane people who already know this because it is OBVIOUS.

[misscam]

So female characters can have any number of flaws - but not any number of awesome characteristics? That makes it too much?

Also, why is Elizabeth Bennett being quoted in there? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that quote about holding women to unreasonable male expectations to be accomplished anyway? And that it's not that women aren't awesome, but saying that they have to be this and this to be so, means no one will hold up?

[lizbee]

It is true, your literary critique is accurate. "Miss Eliza Bennet strikes me as one of those young women who think it clever to impress men by denigrating her own sex." I paraphrase, I can't quote Miss Bingley from memory at 2:30am.

[myniamh]

Watch out girls! Don't be too pretty or the other girls will hate you! What happened to not judging people on their looks/gender/sexuality?

What was the name of that girl in Forests Of The Dead (?) (the first one with River) who was pretty but dim and then got very intelligent and a very messed up face. Can't have everything now can you. Better pick one and don't let it be beauty because no matter how little control you have over society's standard of beauty or your own DNA, it's not fair on other girls and you'll only have yourself to blame if they hate you and don't think that can't be taken off you through time or mob mentality.

And I thought the whole miniskirt = sexist thing was scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[copracat]

You're thinking of Miss Evangelista.

[myniamh]

Yup, that's her.

I've been pondering this all night and I think someone should link her to some of the best/worst HP Sue fics.
The ones with violet eyes and secret blood relationships with Voldemort and secret world shattering powers and where she weeps bitter tears because the girls all hate her and all the boys except the one she wants loves her but it's all rainbows and ponies and world shattering sex with her beloved by the end?
Amy is not a Sue.

[violetisblue]

I'm simply too much? Aw. <3 As for the rest of it, "I don't like female characters who are intelligent, beautiful, confident, witty, sexy and brave, I like Rose"? Well...you said it, ma'am, I didn't!

[copracat]

Wow. Not only hating on Amy but also back-handedly complimenting Rose, Martha and Donna as variously and/or separately stupid, ugly, unsexy and cowardly.

Some people in Who fandom have been drinking the self-haterade.

Nothing makes me loathe poor David Tennant's Doctor so much as the Doctor Knows Best deification that's going on. Well, you know, I don't hate Ten; I just hate how some people like him.

AND YOUR MUM

Trufax.

[prof_pangaea]

It's not about her being intelligent, beautiful and knowing it, witty, sexy and brave. it's about her being all those things... at the same time! Sometimes, it's just too much. (and the same goes for River Song)

what a truly pathetic comment.

[gloss]

[via network; hello!]
Your list is *awesome* and the best possible response to such depressingly obnoxious idiocy and self-hatred.

[jaythenerdkid]

When I read the link text, I thought you had just exaggerated someone else's comment - but no, you actually quoted them! I'm going to soothe my outrage by thinking about all the amazing, beautiful, smart, sexy, confident women I know - starting with the girl I see in the mirror and going from there.

Feminism is (IMO) supposed to be about celebrating female success and endeavour, not about tearing people down because you think they're making you look bad. How is it that almost nobody outside this journal seems to get that?

[biichan]

... and here I thought she couldn't get stupider.

[cyprinella]

So I've been sick the last few days which means I've been doing copious amounts of interneting, even into the scary hinterlands, and that is honestly the stupidest thing I have read in the last few days.

[amaresu]

I almost replied to that comment, then saw who it was. I decided my time would be better spent beating my head against a brick wall. Or herding cats.

[allfireburns]

Oh dear lord. I thought it was bad enough when she was just implying women that fantastic don't exist, but then she had to go and outright say it. I wish I could feel sad that the commenter apparently doesn't know people like the amazing and wonderful women I'm surrounded by in my life, but I'm having trouble getting to sympathy past the blinding RAGE.

I also can't wrap my head around how fandom can fixate on nothing but a female character's negative traits, and at the same time proclaim that they're Mary Sues, too perfect to be true. Aren't we over this yet, fandom? It's the same argument I've heard lobbied against Gwen, and Martha, and River, and I'm sick of it.

[alienist]

What a completely appalling comment. I wish it surprised me.

On the other hand, that was a brilliant post.

I really just don't understand how someone can call a companion a Sue when the Doctor is right there. If he's not a Sue, they sure as hell aren't.

[kangeiko]

That whole thread made me so angry, i actually got off my arse and commented. on a different point, but still.

The next person who says that Rose was lazy and lacked ambition because she lived in a council flat and worked at a shop gets hit SO HARD their classist little face will fall off. I grew up in a council flat. And worked in a shop. (And so did my mum.) And there is nothing wrong with the scale of my ambition because I'm going to rule the world.

[be_themoon]

I sort of love you for this. <3 me and DW fandom have not been getting along at all this fandom, I'm always so pleased to find anyone at all who loves the season and is a fan of Amy Pond and her fantastic awesomeness. may I friend you?