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My main take away from The Last Jedi...
I mean, okay, it was ... structurally problematic.
"Let's just send two characters off on a side quest which ultimately doesn't affect the plot at all" was certainly a choice which was made, and it's just through sheer luck and the talent, charisma and chemistry of John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran that the Finn and Rose plotline was so entertaining that I almost forgot how ridiculous it was.
But what I keep coming back to is this: how are the second generation Rebel men so terrible?!
Poe: receives an important lesson from Leia about the more subtle types of heroism that don't end with a whole lot of people dying unnecessarily. Turns right around and chucks a
He comes across as entitled and kind of obnoxious and mansplainy, and it's only because Oscar Isaac is so pretty that I don't hate Poe outright. (In fact, I kind of ship Holdo/Poe, but only if it's a bit kinky and he's not allowed to speak in her presence ever.)
(BASICALLY, now I have a second-favourite space vice admiral, and it's niche, but I'll take every crumb that 2017 throws my way, and also if anyone were to write fic where Holdo and Cornwell get drunk, lament the pretty-but-useless men under their command and then make out, there's an audience for that right here.)
Meanwhile, Ben Solo -- in addition to his many, many other failures -- has decided that the way to win Rey over is to re-enact Darcy's first proposal. You know, the one where he insults Elizabeth's family but deigns to love her in spite of them.
Mate. You gotta read the whole book. And also stop killing people, although his actual body count was a lot lower this time around, so well ... done?
Anyway, IN SHORT, someone has badly let down the sons of the Rebellion. I assume it's Han Solo's fault somehow. Or Lando's. Or both. Thank heavens we have Finn, The Only Non-Garbage Man Of His Generation, to save us all.
(I am genuinely annoyed about the Poe thing, though. Like, you go in expecting Kylo Ren to be THE WORST, and that is the one area where he's not going to disappoint you. But Poe turns out to be awful in such a common, mediocre way, just like millions of men out there in the real world. Only prettier.)
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Poe's characterization especially made zero sense. He's reckless, but he's not THAT reckless and according to TFA supplementary material his mother was in the Rebellion. Poe does not have a problem with chain of command or women in the military and this movie decided that now he does for a Lesson to Be Learned. I also think it didn't do any favors to Holdo to be like "hate on this woman for most of the movie and then suddenly like her thanks to this reveal." Again, I think Johnson just wasn't interested in anyone but his faves and it showed all over the screen.
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What I liked about his arc, was that (at least in my initial viewing), he does seem to come out at the end of it with a lesson actually learned. I also didn't get the lesson being so one hundred percent about gender. It could be applied that way and in a very timely way too considering, but I don't think it has to be, if I were to detail Poe's journey, it would be 'he figured out how to look at the big picture, rather than the battle right in front of him', and that doesn't seem like an unreasonable journey for someone who has primarily been required to look at the mission/battle right in front of him, but who does need to be able to step up into leadership.
I also didn't personally get that we were intended to hate on Holdo, but again, she was in the Princess Leia novel and was a very likable character there, so this may be one of those things where having read supplementary materials very definitely skewed my perspective going into the film.
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I don't think he underestimated Holdo because she was female, or that he would have agreed to her orders more readily if they had come from a male general -- indeed, I've yet to see anything in the new trilogy that smacks of misogyny to me, which is one of the reasons I love it so much. I think he underestimated her because she was an outsider and he didn't know if he could trust her, and he was too afraid of her making the wrong call to wait and find out. Which is presumably why Kaydel and others sided with him in the mutiny, because they felt the same way.
And yeah, to me it was clear that Poe's character arc was "hotheaded pilot learns the perspective and wisdom he needs to become a true leader," which I expect is going to be really important in Ep. 9 when Leia's gone. I'm fine with all of that, I just felt like he should have been more strongly reprimanded for his actions in the mutiny.
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I think that's a good point about Holdo. My husband said the same thing about the reprimand, and I don't disagree with that. It feels like there should have been a harsher one.
I suspect on a personal level, considering the losses and how strongly he feels about the Resistance, boy is feeling that failure pretty significantly.
I really hope, side note, that Kaydel Ko gets an expanded role in 9 too, cause it'd make my heart warm to see Billie there more. I was glad that she got more of one in this film.
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WITH KISSING.no subject
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Yeah, I don't think it was intended that way at all -- it just happened to come at this particular moment in history.
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That's really good to know! I have been keeping up as best I can with the new novels but not with the comics yet. I'm glad that it's established characterization then and not just plot convenience for the movie to keep the side characters busy. I really appreciate your commentary, it makes me better understand where the Poe subplot was coming from.
I think Holdo was deliberately set up to be disliked by the audience in that cliche "Here's an authority figure that is antagonizing a protagonist character, but wait they had Reasons!(tm)" Like I knew the way the script was playing out that she obviously had information that Poe and the audience didn't have so clearly there was going to be a big reveal that she was right all along. Which is why I didn't appreciate that we were supposed to be angry with her for blocking a protag's action. I haven't read the Leia novel yet, but now I'm very intrigued because I wanted to like Holdo from the get-go in the movie and also I need more Leia-centric stories in my life.
Thank you again for the commentary! TLJ was a challenging non-typical Star Wars movie so there's a lot to chew on.
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But....! Don't walk, RUN to go get the Princess Leia novel. So far I think Claudia Gray has written all of my favorite novels in the new canon. It's not just good Leia, it's good coming of age YA, and it's as satisfying as really amazing fanfiction. It's hands down my favorite novel of the new canon. And there's a lot of Bail and Breha and it left me wanting a whole story (or MAYBE an anthology film?) about Breha. Like, more Organas in 2018 please!
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Wait, we were meant to hate Holdo? I loved her from the moment she appeared, and I thought we were meant to.
Poe's characterisation made perfect sense -- he's used to operating alone, or leading a small squadron on a specific mission, and now he needs to learn to see the bigger picture. But he's resistant, because it's a new way of thinking, and he doesn't trust Holdo because she's a stranger to him.
He's a jerk and an idiot, and Leia shooting him was my favourite part of his arc, but it made perfect sense.
I'm puzzled by your remarks about Johnson, because it's not as if he snuck in some new or unplanned storytelling under the noses of Kathleen Kennedy and Disney. This is clearly the story that was planned from the start, and while Finn and Rose's subplot doesn't pay off right away, it's the emotional heart of the story, the key to the considerable character growth Finn undergoes, and also provides the long-term hope that the Resistance needs.
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So when LF saw how positive the fan reaction to Finn and Poe were, they had to do some fast retooling of Ep. 8 to give them an expanded role in the saga, which explains why at first glance it feels a bit tacked on and not as emotionally resonant as the Luke/Rey/Ben part of the story. That's a Doylist explanation rather than a Watsonian one, which I know is not always the most satisfying, but I don't think it's really got anything to do with Rian only being interested in the white characters.
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I appreciate the commentary on Poe. I forgot that his MO had been usually been solo missions or small squadrons.
I'm not saying Johnson snuck in anything new or unwanted, the Skywalker saga is the heart of the franchise and I understand that. What I'm saying is I felt he was bored with the the characters not directly involved with that particular plotline and it impeded my enjoyment of the non-Skywalker focused subplots because the writing quality was so vastly different. I didn't get that vibe from The Force Awakens, the writing felt like it loved every character for however long or short they were onscreen. (Not that TFA didn't have some writing problems, but I never felt there was a lack of love for characters).
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At least Finn's attempted sacrifice was the culmination of an arc where he started out determined to run from the First Order, then stayed for an individual, and now he's ready to die for a cause.
Next step: living for the cause instead.
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And yes to Finn's character arc. I don't understand the people who claim he didn't have one in this movie, or that he somehow regressed from his heroism in TFA. It was totally clear to me that the only reason he fought with the Resistance was to save Rey, not because he believed in their cause or thought they had any chance of succeeding, so I wasn't surprised to see him trying to desert with the beacon to save Rey from going down with the Resistance ship. I loved how clear it was by the end that he had come to believe in the Resistance, and was ready to fight for them no matter what the cost.
I would still recommend the beginning of the Canto Bight sequence as a convenient place to step out and go to the washroom, much like the Rathtars scene in TFA, but that doesn't mean the whole thing is meaningless (unlike the Rathtar sequence which... kind of was).
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AND I WAS LIKE
WE CAN JUST FAST FORWARD THROUGH THE RATHTARS
THE ONLY GOOD BIT IS WHEN REY SAVES FINN WITH SECURITY CAMERAS
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(Even though I still also feel bad for poor Greedo.)
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(But true.)
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SWORDLIGHTSABER.no subject
Also, Ben has a lot of Han's less favorable characteristics...
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In some ways yes, Rose and Finn's arc was 'pointless plot wise', but on the other hand, it wasn't pointless to Finn's character development. You could also say that the arc itself matched Yoda's learning from failure situation.
And on a personal level from someone who has written her senators like ten thousand times this year saying the same thing, over and over, only to feel like it isn't doing any good at all, the child at the end, with the ring on his finger is a reminder that what Finn and Rose did wasn't pointless. They just aren't going to see the payoff, and for me, that was one of those moments that I just was super grateful for.
The thing I'm most annoyed with, honestly, is that I always felt like the saga films, all nine of them, should really be Anakin Skywalkers story. The first being how he fell, the second being his redemption, and it would make sense to follow then, that the third is his legacy. And so far it feels like more or less that legacy is... rubbish. If Kylo's really the only actual Skywalker in the film, and it really feels like they're going to go down with him being the villain at this point, I'm kinda... why am I here?
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I realised that last night! Finn had tremendous growth, and also, while their actual mission was a failure, they've effectively recruited a new generation to the Resistance. Short term failure, long term success.
I figure that he's not going to stay the villain. But he needs to redeem himself, not just be invited by Rey (or Han, or whoever).
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I would be here for that. Like. Here and with bells on. =D
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I can see Leia's death playing into this, though, in that with her gone he'll have no "past" left to hold him back from whatever he thinks he's meant to become -- and therefore, no one left to blame when he fails.
And Luke is going to troll the crap out of him (I hope) and it is going to be great.
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YES! I keep thinking of his present nihilism versus "fight for the ones you love". Snoke has taught him to love no one, which is ... well, quite sad, but also sensible if you want a Vader 2.0 who isn't going to betray the Sith for his kid.
If I were writing IX, and I'm very glad I'm not, I'd probably open with a big time jump. A few years. Enough for the First Order to be tearing itself apart, and Ren realising that order isn't all it's cracked up to be.
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It's especially weird when you realize that all the action of both TFA and TLJ takes place in well under a week. A bit like the Edward Eager story where the kids meet a nice little man at the beginning of their magical adventure and he gets engaged to their widowed mom by the end, which all seems quite nice and reasonable when you're a kid reading the story, but if you actually pay attention to the internal chronology of the book you realize that Mom and New Stepdad have only known each other for two and a half days...
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So yes, there had better be some OBNOXIOUS JEDI GHOST action in the next film, or I will be miffed. ("Master Yoda, you have taught me many things. Including that being a ghost and poking the living with sticks is THE BEST."
"A hellion in my youth, was I! Wondered, you did, how I knew the dark side could dominate your destiny? Close, I came! Eeeh-heh-heh-heh!"
"...yup, it figures.")
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it also served to show the side of the galaxy that would profit no matter what, because there will always be buyers for their goods. which made the lack of support at the end make more sense to me, at least; the true supporters probably couldn't afford or risk coming to help, and the moneyed supporters probably saw the First Order as the likely winners and wanted to keep their contracts.
I also liked that Poe came off like a jerk though, so idk. That seemed in line, not because he's cocky but because he's passionate yet not as experienced as Holdo.
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