My main take away from The Last Jedi...

[lizbee]

I mean, okay, it was ... structurally problematic.

"Let's just send two characters off on a side quest which ultimately doesn't affect the plot at all" was certainly a choice which was made, and it's just through sheer luck and the talent, charisma and chemistry of John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran that the Finn and Rose plotline was so entertaining that I almost forgot how ridiculous it was.

But what I keep coming back to is this: how are the second generation Rebel men so terrible?!

Poe: receives an important lesson from Leia about the more subtle types of heroism that don't end with a whole lot of people dying unnecessarily. Turns right around and chucks a tanty mutiny because a lady, who has no need at all to explain herself to him, refuses to explain herself to him.

He comes across as entitled and kind of obnoxious and mansplainy, and it's only because Oscar Isaac is so pretty that I don't hate Poe outright. (In fact, I kind of ship Holdo/Poe, but only if it's a bit kinky and he's not allowed to speak in her presence ever.)

(BASICALLY, now I have a second-favourite space vice admiral, and it's niche, but I'll take every crumb that 2017 throws my way, and also if anyone were to write fic where Holdo and Cornwell get drunk, lament the pretty-but-useless men under their command and then make out, there's an audience for that right here.)

Meanwhile, Ben Solo -- in addition to his many, many other failures -- has decided that the way to win Rey over is to re-enact Darcy's first proposal. You know, the one where he insults Elizabeth's family but deigns to love her in spite of them.

Mate. You gotta read the whole book. And also stop killing people, although his actual body count was a lot lower this time around, so well ... done?

Anyway, IN SHORT, someone has badly let down the sons of the Rebellion. I assume it's Han Solo's fault somehow. Or Lando's. Or both. Thank heavens we have Finn, The Only Non-Garbage Man Of His Generation, to save us all.

(I am genuinely annoyed about the Poe thing, though. Like, you go in expecting Kylo Ren to be THE WORST, and that is the one area where he's not going to disappoint you. But Poe turns out to be awful in such a common, mediocre way, just like millions of men out there in the real world. Only prettier.)

Comments

[sabrina]

I was kind of the exact opposite in the sense that I really loved Poe's arc in this film. And full disclaimer being that I did just finish the third volume of the Poe comics like a week ago, so I have all that going into it, but he was easily one of my favorite things.

In some ways yes, Rose and Finn's arc was 'pointless plot wise', but on the other hand, it wasn't pointless to Finn's character development. You could also say that the arc itself matched Yoda's learning from failure situation.

And on a personal level from someone who has written her senators like ten thousand times this year saying the same thing, over and over, only to feel like it isn't doing any good at all, the child at the end, with the ring on his finger is a reminder that what Finn and Rose did wasn't pointless. They just aren't going to see the payoff, and for me, that was one of those moments that I just was super grateful for.

The thing I'm most annoyed with, honestly, is that I always felt like the saga films, all nine of them, should really be Anakin Skywalkers story. The first being how he fell, the second being his redemption, and it would make sense to follow then, that the third is his legacy. And so far it feels like more or less that legacy is... rubbish. If Kylo's really the only actual Skywalker in the film, and it really feels like they're going to go down with him being the villain at this point, I'm kinda... why am I here?

[lizbee]

In some ways yes, Rose and Finn's arc was 'pointless plot wise', but on the other hand, it wasn't pointless to Finn's character development. You could also say that the arc itself matched Yoda's learning from failure situation.

I realised that last night! Finn had tremendous growth, and also, while their actual mission was a failure, they've effectively recruited a new generation to the Resistance. Short term failure, long term success.

If Kylo's really the only actual Skywalker in the film, and it really feels like they're going to go down with him being the villain at this point, I'm kinda... why am I here?

I figure that he's not going to stay the villain. But he needs to redeem himself, not just be invited by Rey (or Han, or whoever).

[sabrina]

I figure that he's not going to stay the villain. But he needs to redeem himself, not just be invited by Rey (or Han, or whoever).

I would be here for that. Like. Here and with bells on. =D

[rj_anderson]

He needs to want to be redeemed, is I think the crucial point. Right now he doesn't, because in his mind he's still justified in everything he's done so far. Until he fails utterly in his own eyes, and realizes that his dream of bringing order to the universe with the power of Vader's legacy is as twisted and corrupt as Snoke ever was, there's no way he can be anything but the villain of this story no matter how Rey or anyone else begs him otherwise.

I can see Leia's death playing into this, though, in that with her gone he'll have no "past" left to hold him back from whatever he thinks he's meant to become -- and therefore, no one left to blame when he fails.

And Luke is going to troll the crap out of him (I hope) and it is going to be great.

[lizbee]

Until he fails utterly in his own eyes, and realizes that his dream of bringing order to the universe with the power of Vader's legacy is as twisted and corrupt as Snoke ever was, there's no way he can be anything but the villain of this story no matter how Rey or anyone else begs him otherwise.

YES! I keep thinking of his present nihilism versus "fight for the ones you love". Snoke has taught him to love no one, which is ... well, quite sad, but also sensible if you want a Vader 2.0 who isn't going to betray the Sith for his kid.

If I were writing IX, and I'm very glad I'm not, I'd probably open with a big time jump. A few years. Enough for the First Order to be tearing itself apart, and Ren realising that order isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[rj_anderson]

I find myself suspecting that they WILL do that time jump, if only to catch up the ages of the characters to the ages of the actors playing them. Adam Driver may have the freakish ability to make himself look like an emo 17-year-old at will, but that's not going to last much longer, and Daisy is clearly no longer 23 (let alone Rey's 19).

It's especially weird when you realize that all the action of both TFA and TLJ takes place in well under a week. A bit like the Edward Eager story where the kids meet a nice little man at the beginning of their magical adventure and he gets engaged to their widowed mom by the end, which all seems quite nice and reasonable when you're a kid reading the story, but if you actually pay attention to the internal chronology of the book you realize that Mom and New Stepdad have only known each other for two and a half days...

[archangelbeth]

Luke PROMISED to troll Kylo forever. He PROMISED. "Strike me down and I will be with you forever," he said. And lo, Kylo stuck a lightsaber in him! Well, in his image. Close 'nuff!

So yes, there had better be some OBNOXIOUS JEDI GHOST action in the next film, or I will be miffed. ("Master Yoda, you have taught me many things. Including that being a ghost and poking the living with sticks is THE BEST."
"A hellion in my youth, was I! Wondered, you did, how I knew the dark side could dominate your destiny? Close, I came! Eeeh-heh-heh-heh!"
"...yup, it figures.")