lizbee: (Random: Daria hug)
lizbee ([personal profile] lizbee) wrote2018-12-30 07:53 am
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Against hopepunk

It's difficult to articulate why I hate the entire concept of "hopepunk" and quite a lot of the works recommended under that label, because just thinking about it sends my shoulders up around my ears.

This is mostly thanks to my childhood and adolescence, and specifically my parents' friends.



My parents were extremely conservative Catholics. Technically they still are, but the world's definition of "conservative" has moved further to the right these days, and apparently my father is considered a leading progressive academic in Singapore.

Mum and Dad censored our popular culture consumption, but only to an extent. We weren't allowed to watch the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Outcast", for example, in case we got the idea that gay people should have human rights, and anything sexually explicit was right out. For the most part, though, they let us know when they disapproved of something we were watching, and talked about why. (Captain Planet, for example. Paganism and environmentalism. Very bad.)

And when they censored our reading material, it was more out of snobbishness than concerns about content -- I wasn't allowed to read Sweet Valley or Babysitter's Club books, for example, because they were considered intellectually lightweight. On the other hand, Mum enjoyed reading any other YA that came into my hands, and reserved her greatest criticism for Prices by David McRobbie, about drug trafficking, murder and art forgery in a small town: "He uses a bit of language, doesn't he?"

Basically, unless there was a whiff of homosexuality involved, Mum and Dad were engaged but moderately permissive when it came to our media, and after I was thirteen or so, I was allowed to read anything that came into the house. (I had by this time read Mum's secret stash of Jackie Collins novels, which was the closest to Sweet Valley that I could find. So that ban backfired spectacularly.)

But lots of their friends were even more conservative Catholics -- the sort who homeschooled their kids because Catholic schools were too liberal, and kept tight rein over what they read and watched. And these friends were pretty appalled that we were allowed to attend school and watch and read more or less what we wanted -- even books and TV shows for adults.

(For the record, most of their kids have grown up and rebelled by becoming teachers. In state schools, even! Except one, who was, last time I checked, a leading anti-capitalist economist and punk musician.)

They expressed their disapproval in the traditional form for educated middle class people: passive-aggressive gifts of books. Specifically, Catholic guides to popular culture, with ratings for morality, wholesomeness, good messages and so forth.

Naturally, I read them. And I was intrigued to note that nothing I enjoyed got a good review -- Star Trek: The Next Generation, for example, was criticised for its dangerously humanistic philosophies. Asimov and McCaffrey -- along with the few other science fiction authors included in the brief fiction section -- were called out for secularism, atheism and generally being anti-God.

And it's not that these descriptions were wrong! Star Trek is famously humanist! McCaffrey depicted Pern as a world without religion of any kind! (She was also dinged for "unwholesomeness", which I suspect is a reference to the problematic queerness of dragonriders.)

(Grounds on which a work might be deemed unwholesome:
  • sex
  • queer sex
  • any allusion to queerness whatsoever, whether or not actual sex is involved
  • single parenthood
  • violence
  • death
  • even natural death, sometimes
  • divorce
  • depictions of religion other than Catholicism
  • High Anglicanism is acceptable in a pinch
  • but only just barely
  • arbitrary, undefined Bad Things)

But I still found value in those stories, and I disliked the idea of rejecting a work wholesale because it did not entirely align with one's philosophy -- or, worse, for an arbitrary value of wholesomeness. (Also -- I understood the message behind the passive-aggressive book giving: THEY WERE COMING FOR MY STAR TREK.)

Fortunately, when I finally -- rather nervously -- asked, Mum had no intention of giving up her Star Trek either. So we went on as we had always gone on, and I got to make up my own mind about the fiction I consumed, without regard to its wholesome qualities.


(I'd really like to pretend that I rejected Marion Zimmer Bradley because I sensed that she was a creep and a sexual abuser, but honestly, I was just a fourteen-year-old anti-feminist who had no patience for "the world was a matriarchy until Christianity came along and ruined it' nonsense.)

That was the '90s. Cut to 2018, and apparently it's cool to judge works by their "wholesomeness" because ... I dunno, I look at the world and sometimes I think my parents' friends won.

Finally, the bit where I talk about hopepunk

This article is doing the rounds, explaining what hopepunk is. It's by Aja Romano, which means it's deeply stupid and does a profound disservice to the entire concept of hopepunk, which is to say, it makes it even worse. But the definition she offers, long and muddy as it is, works:

Depending on who you ask, hopepunk is as much a mood and a spirit as a definable literary movement, a narrative message of “keep fighting, no matter what.” If that seems too broad — after all, aren’t all fictional characters fighting for something? — then consider the concept of hope itself, with all the implications of love, kindness, and faith in humanity it encompasses.

Now, picture that swath of comfy ideas, not as a brightly optimistic state of being, but as an active political choice, made with full self-awareness that things might be bleak or even frankly hopeless, but you’re going to keep hoping, loving, being kind nonetheless.

Through this framing, the idea of choosing hope becomes both an existential act that affirms your humanity, and a form of resistance against cynical worldviews that dismiss hope as a powerful force for change.

Now, I quite like a bit of optimism in my fiction, and I'm not averse to the occasional happy ending now and then -- although one of the reasons I don't read romance fiction is that the happy ending is built in, and the lack of tension irritates me.

Here's my beef:

"Hope" and "optimism" are incredibly subjective concepts. What one person finds comforting, another will find cloying, and what many people found enjoyable and reassuring, I found boring and sexist.

One of Aja's suggestions for "hopepunk" in television is The Expanse. I love The Expanse, and I was arguing just a few weeks ago that it's a profoundly optimistic series. But it's also very, very dark -- there's body horror, there's psychological horror, there's the terrorist attack in the later books which kills billions of people and renders Earth almost uninhabitable. What makes it optimistic, for me, is that redemption is never off the table for people who want it. Atonement is hard work, and painful, but it's there.

But a lot of people disagree, and consider it grimdark. Not to mention that the first book features a straight-up fridging of a woman of colour, and the whole series is replete with the male gaze.

It's subjective. Star Trek is widely considered optimistic and hopeful, but a lot of people look at a universe which was entirely devoid of canonical queer people until just the last few years, and see a dystopia where they and people like them have been erased.

And modern fandom -- okay, Tumblr -- has this bad habit of describing works as more pure ("pure") than they actually are. Like, people will claim that Mad Max: Fury Road treats all women as people, overlooking that the Milking Mothers -- fatter and darker-skinned than the Wives -- are shown hooked up to milking machines and treated as props. I'm still mad about that time people told me -- and I believed them -- that Pacific Rim was a smart, feminist movie. Tumblr's current favourite movie is Addams Family Values, which a friend recently rewatched and found full of racism and jokes about violence against women.

Now, my only actual trigger is "bad things being portrayed as good or, at least, deserved", so a lot of the discourse around hopepunk really puts me on edge. Take, for example, "hopepunk" coiner Alexandra Rowland's list of people (men) who embody the concept: “Jesus and Gandhi and Martin Luther King and Robin Hood and John Lennon”. Out of five men, one is fictional, two were domestic abusers. I mean. Seriously?

I like a lot of the things Aja points to as signifiers of "hopepunk"! Community building, perseverance, connection.

But then I see the words "weaponised cuteness", and I want to punch something out of sheer contrariness. Fuck you and your commodification of hope and optimism, your narrow little boxes and wilful misreading of texts. The Handmaid's Tale is hopepunk? The Hate U Give? These are great works, and I love them, but let's not pretend they're not incredibly dark. They're just not nihilistic. The Broken Earth? I haven't read it, but I've seen it described as "grimdark but without sexual violence" -- which I said on Twitter, only for [personal profile] coffeeandink to tell me that it does, in fact, contain sexual violence. The Vorkosigan Saga? One of my all-time favourite series, but it has a shitton of sexual violence and I could not in good conscience recommend it to a trans or genderqueer person.

I see a lot of black and white thinking bound up in "hopepunk". A lot of "I like it, and I found value in it, therefore it is optimistic and hopepunk, and self-care is hopepunk, and so are kittens and memes".

And that's fine, so far as it goes, but ... again. It's subjective. We're back to the concept of "wholesomeness" in fiction, which became popular on Tumblr just before "hopepunk" emerged as a concept. To be honest, I have trouble separating the two.

But to me, ascribing wholesomeness to a work of fiction is as useless as ascribing a moral value to a food. Fresh, warm wholemeal bread is healthy for most people, but I'm gluten intolerant, so it'll only give me diarrhoea. All fiction contains problematic elements, and some you can overlook, others are dealbreakers. And if there are too many dealbreakers in a work described as "hopeful", you start to wonder if the problem is you.
muccamukk: A basket with a seal in it. Text: WTF!? (Misc: Phoque (WTF!?))

[personal profile] muccamukk 2018-12-29 10:38 pm (UTC)(link)
First off, whoever told you Broken Earth didn't have sexual violence was off their fucking gord. I love that book, but it's incredibly violent. The entire series is about how violence, including sexual violence, including sexual violence directed at disabled children (!) is embedded in empire. One of the heroines is forced to have reproductive sex with someone she doesn't like (he's gay and doesn't want to either) the first time we meet her. (That said I wouldn't describe it as grimdark, because I find it incredibly optimistic. However, as far as I can tell, "grimdark" = "something dealing with darker themes that I personally did not like.")

*coughs*

To the actual point: I'm not reading the thing by Aja, because my blood pressure doesn't need that, and I generally like say Rebecca Solnit's comments about hope in activist work (she considers optimism something else), but I find a insistence on hope not only cloying buy unfair and manipulative. What if I don't fucking want to feel hopeful? And if I'm not hopeful, did the shitty things that keep happening happen because I didn't have the right outlook? It's some kind of high level emotional blackmail bullshit, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, "punk" fucking means something. I'm pretty sure this isn't it.
askalis: Alis by Alis. (Default)

[personal profile] askalis 2018-12-29 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
As someone who is also incredibly side-eyey at the whole “hopepunk” thing… yes. This. All of this.

(Also: I think I throw up in my mouth a little every time I hear someone use “comfy” unironically. Gak.)
wolfy_writing: (Default)

[personal profile] wolfy_writing 2018-12-29 10:52 pm (UTC)(link)
But then I see the words "weaponised cuteness", and I want to punch something out of sheer contrariness.

Ugh, this. I see hope and optimism in stories, and sometimes it works for me. I see people in Tumblr talking about hope and optimism and how it's all part of some big Cute Soft Nice all-consuming morally-obligatory thing, and I want to hit things until something breaks.

I see a lot of black and white thinking bound up in "hopepunk". A lot of "I like it, and I found value in it, therefore it is optimistic and hopepunk, and self-care is hopepunk, and so are kittens and memes".

Yeah, there's way too much putting a specific moral spin on things to argue that they're Good or Bad, rather than they have good and bad elements and also elements that aren't assessed on a moral scale. (There's no moral obligation for a story to be optimistic or hopeful, and sometimes the best way to go with a story is dark. A bleak story can be badly told or not to someone's taste, but there doesn't need to be a movement about it.)
nam_jai: (DW Romana)

[personal profile] nam_jai 2018-12-29 10:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Ugh, I thought we were finally past putting a halo on John Lennon's head, but I guess not.

I haven't read the Aja article (and it doesn't sound like it would help), but I really don't get the concept. At least when it comes to popular fiction: As far as I can tell, what hopepunk doesn't apply to would be a much shorter list.
wolfy_writing: (Default)

[personal profile] wolfy_writing 2018-12-29 11:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I do start worrying that there's something fundamentally wrong with me! Tumblr sets off my "I'm having wants, needs and feelings wrong" issues and makes it sound like everyone should want the same things.
kore: (Jyn Erso - Rogue One)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)
It's by Aja Romano

AHAHAHAHA LET'S PUT THAT IN FILE 13

But anyway. These people need to read Rebecca Solnit for one thing. Hope is not squishy. Or wholesome. Or comfy.

The Handmaid's Tale is hopepunk?

MARGARET ATWOOD GAVE IT A DELIBERATELY AMBIGUOUS ENDING WTF (also,in both the movie, which Atwood helped write, and the series, which she influenced considerably, the heroine is a lot more rebellious and active than she is in the book)

"hopepunk" coiner Alexandra Rowland's list of people (men) who embody the concept: “Jesus and Gandhi and Martin Luther King and Robin Hood and John Lennon”

Whaaaaa omg no. (Robin Hood WTF are these people smoking. Also why not people like John Lewis and Sharice Davids and Janelle Monae and Solnit herself. But anyway.)

One of the most actually, no lie, hopeful films I've seen in years and years was Rogue One, in which EVERYONE DIED at the end, but it wasn't gratuitous or hopeless or even that depressing. Those people had weighed the chances, knew the cost might be their lives, and were as okay with it as anyone can be, from the heroine of the movie down to the unnamed characters at the very end struggling to pass on the message.

Anyway, tl;dr, anyone who uses the phrase "weaponized cuteness" unironically is someone I want to stay far the fuck away from. Good Lord.
capri0mni: A black Skull & Crossbones with the Online Disability Pride Flag as a background (Default)

[personal profile] capri0mni 2018-12-29 11:26 pm (UTC)(link)
I found the novels 1984 and Lord of the Flies (both required reading for school, both considered "Classics that every educated person should read" so Grimdark that I couldn't read them all the way through -- I ended up passing those classes simply because I made myself read the first sentence of every paragraph, and skimming the rest.

However, I found Albert Camus's The Plague to be uplifting, because even though nearly everyone dies, while they live, they try to support each other, and the message I took away was: "People are worth fighting for, even if it's a losing battle."
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:26 pm (UTC)(link)
"Comfy" and oh ghod "uncomfy." I know I know the whole thing about mocking the speech and uptalk of teenage girls, but a whole lot of Tumblrspeak strikes me as fetishizing twee infantilism and it drives me nuts.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, and both those books have deliberately hopeless endings -- Winston Smith is defeated, and IIRC at the end of Flies the boy (Ralph?) knows he can't go back to civilization and be normal, and in fact civilization itself is built on a lie. I agree Camus is way different -- I think because of his existentialism, which is kind of like Beckett's "I can't go on, I will go on." If the people are hopelessly broken and no resistance is possible, that's grimdark for me.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Uhhh maybe the novel The Road? No, I think that has a kind of happy ending. The Saw movies? Unrelievedly grim horror movies like Martyrs?
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
That is good to hear! Not to sound really off, but most of the people I know who use that kind of Tumblrspeak are over 30 or even over 40 and the whole "thank you frand an merr crizzmus" thing just sets my teeth on edge like metal on metal.
muccamukk: Text: I wasn't going to be as much use as Thomas "Oh, sorry,was that your Tiger Tank?" Nightingale. (RoL: Tiger Tank)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2018-12-29 11:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Teenage girls, the category of people we need to put the most time into mocking.

(I realise a lot of it is self-directed by teens, but I HATES IT PRECIOUS.)
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Tumblr sometimes makes me want to scrawl "'THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MORAL OR IMMORAL BOOK'" all over it in giant black letters.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Three of the people you just mentioned are women, that's a strong point against them.

RIGHT
RIGHT

That's a good point! I can never watch it again, because I just cannot cope with stories where everyone does, but the execution was incredibly optimistic.
No pun intended.


HEH. -- And there's another movie, Das Boot, which I love because it's incredibly well done technically, but it's like the opposite of R1 -- there's a similar kind of ending but it just makes you want to punch through the screen.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, mocking teenage girls or pearl-clutching about how they're reading stuff like Twilight is bad, but Tumblr goes the whole way in the other direction and is like "Teenage girlspeak is revolutionizing the language and communication just like Shakespeare did!" I shit you not, there's an actual post like that going around. And I'm just like....you know, not-mocking something does not mean pretending that it's made out of solid gold, either. It's such an extreme environment.
kore: (Beth Gibbons - music)

[personal profile] kore 2018-12-29 11:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Ugh, I thought we were finally past putting a halo on John Lennon's head

SERIOUSLY
capri0mni: A black Skull & Crossbones with the Online Disability Pride Flag as a background (Default)

[personal profile] capri0mni 2018-12-29 11:48 pm (UTC)(link)
The thing about 1984 is that the first half of the book is the Protagonist spends the first half of the novel imagining how he would be tortured, once the authorities caught up with him, and then, the second half of the book is him being tortured exactly as he imagined it. I remember flipping between the front and back of the book as I was reading it, and realizing that even the descriptions of things were exactly the same.

George Orwell didn't have copy and paste tech available to him, but he might as well have. I gave up a little over half-way through, because I didn't want to have to sit through the same torture twice.

...And then, I learned that Orwell was dying of tuberculosis when he was writing that, and thought: "Well, that explains it!" all his energy was taken up with being sick, and he didn't have anything left to imagine a different ending.
muccamukk: Doctor Rao studying while everyone else parties. (Marvel: Study Hard)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2018-12-29 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh lord, are they? Half the time with stuff like uncomfy, I feel like it IS meant to be mocking of how teens talk, even though as Lizbee says, actual teens don't talk like that, and it's all twee bs.

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