Here's a very quick rant

[lizbee]

Star Trek: Discovery has just been released on DVD and Blu-Ray (and the iTunes store), which means a fresh wave of reviews. And I swear to God, if I see the words "dark and gritty" one more time--

It's just a really lazy way to describe the series. (Although apparently the CBSAA stream was darker than the Netflix version, depending on your connection speed and the hardware you were using. Which ... yikes.) It certainly starts off that way, and I think would have wound up much darker if Fuller hadn't left -- I think we dodged a major bullet there -- but Disco, to me, is profoundly optimistic. It just doesn't wrap its story up in forty-five minutes because that's not how television works anymore.

Anyway, I could rant more, but here's a short, excellent Tumblr thread on the subject -- hey, look, I'm in it! But I'm mostly drawing attention to it because radioactive-violet's additional remark about small acts of kindness really touched me.

...okay, I do have to rant just a little bit more, because I keep seeing people lament that all SF right now is dystopic. And I'm like, hello, have you not looked at The Expanse? That is a profoundly optimistic series -- yes, people do terrible things, they're blinded by ambition or prejudice or greed or rage, but there is always room for redemption.

The TV adaptation has barely scratched the surface of where the books have gone in that regard, but so far it's been a close enough adaptation that I'm pretty sure we'll get there. Clarissa Mao can repent and redeem herself. So can [spoilery book character whose crimes are even worse than Clarissa's]. And it's hard work, and not everyone is eager to offer forgiveness, but ... that's life. 

The Expanse is more realistic than Star Trek's fuzzy post-capitalism, but it's very far from grimdark.

Just because a series isn't beige doesn't mean it's Dark And/Or Gritty. 

(OTOH, I may be biased, because I also don't think A Song of Ice and Fire is especially grimdark, and I've hated nearly everything recommended as "optimistic and hopeful speculative fiction" in the last few years. I like my worldbuilding and situations complicated! I want characters to make mistakes!)

Comments

[wolfy_writing]

I've hated nearly everything recommended as "optimistic and hopeful speculative fiction" in the last few years. I like my worldbuilding and situations complicated! I want characters to make mistakes!

I can sympathize. I tend to find more satisfaction and actual optimism in stories with messy, ugly, and even horrifying things happening and there being reasons to hope and the power to make things better in those situations than a lot of what's presented as optimistic and hopeful and is just...nowhere near as compelling, and often more than a bit handwavey?

[lizbee]

Yes, exactly!

The Long Way To A Small, Angry Planet is one book that's often recommended as optimistic and hopeful -- and I have to admit that I didn't finish it because it was SO FUCKING BORING, I FOUND MYSELF DREADING THAT MOMENT WHEN I RAN OUT OF THINGS TO DO ON MY PHONE.

[kore]

DARK AND GRITTY DISCOVERY omfg, that is just really so lazy, and uncomprehending of what the series was doing. I seriously think it was people going "BUT WHERE IS THE WHITE GUY? Where is the white male captain Upholding Starfleet Standards?" and they just couldn't see it was a black woman, an Asian captain and an alien. Arrrrrrrgh.

I like the original series, but even though I watched a lot of TNG, it was just kind of....so shallow in a way. Nothing was ever at stake. It wasn't bad, it was just very bland. And then Voyager had the chance for some real conflict and interesting characterization, and NOPE, it also went bland. And ITA, there's a whole range between grimdark and "beige."

[lizbee]

I seriously think it was people going "BUT WHERE IS THE WHITE GUY? Where is the white male captain Upholding Starfleet Standards?" and they just couldn't see it was a black woman, an Asian captain and an alien. Arrrrrrrgh.

I really do think that a bit part of it was people not understanding (or wanting to believe) that the series is about MICHAEL. And I've seen some pretty amazing work done to argue that Michael is the worst and most bigoted and racist character in Star Trek history.

I think that TNG's conflict-free nature is very overstated, but it was mostly episodic, so everything was resolved quickly. And UPN insisted that Voyager be TNG2.0.

[kore]

I really do think that a bit part of it was people not understanding (or wanting to believe) that the series is about MICHAEL.

It was totally about her! It was HER journey, she was the central character, like that Tumblr post you quoted said, it was her Bildungsroman. Other people had important journeys too, like Tilly and Kat and L'Rell and Stamets, but it was ALL ABOUT her. And I honestly think a lot of the critics and fanboys and whoever just....couldn't handle that. (Like some people couldn't deal with seeing a Black man in the White House. It just short-circuited something for them.) Plus, Sonequa did a BEAUTIFUL job, I thought, in being the heart and soul of the series, and Michelle Yeoh wasn't far behind. Anyway.

And I've seen some pretty amazing work done to argue that Michael is the worst and most bigoted and racist character in Star Trek history.

I just can't....no, you know what, I really can believe it. Because it really is like their brains short-circuit and they say the most incredible bullshit. Or they (almost always guys) are spewing or trolling because they're bored or that cute girl/fucking bitch wouldn't talk to them or they didn't get a promotion or whatever. And "The World Owes Me." Which is such a bizarre thing, to walk around apparently thinking they are entitled to other peoples' attention and energy and time, and if they don't get it they are perfectly entitled in throwing a shit-fit.

Anyway. Apparently a lot of the online shit-stirring and anti-Gurl Remakes (Mad Max, Ghostbusters, Ocean's 8) was also done by Russian trolls. So there's THAT on top of anything else.

//feminist frothing over //for now //maybe

//....I need an Emperor Georgiou icon

[monanotlisa]

I agree that's a lazy way to describe a series, especially these days where the description is overused.

As for bias, I don't think you're particularly biased. DISCO is a Star Trek series; it believes in human goodness, and certainly in the power of choice. Mostly, of course, Things Often Turn Out Well Against All Odds -- fairly standard for genre. ASOIAF isn't too dark from where I stand, either. Sure, the series has our protagonists make bad decisions that end up badly (basically everything Cersei does) as well as good decisions that end up badly (can't even begin to name all). But there's still our heroes and heroines, especially Arya, Danaerys, Jon, and Bran, who do succeed in exactly the same way in circumstances that are deadly for the rest of the cast of this supposedly realistic fantasy. Neither DISCO or ASOIAF depress me...unlike, say, The Fox Cub Bold. Now that shit is dark. ;)

[ironed_orchid]

I do have to rant just a little bit more, because I keep seeing people lament that all SF right now is dystopic

I think a dystopian set up is often an opportunity for optimistic storytelling, because the characters want to change the world by making it better.

And Disco is still the comparatively early days of federation and there's a war on and Mirror!Lorca is shady AF, and yet the series is hopeful and Burnham is like a bright shining star because she believes in the values of the federation, and tries to live by them.

[skygiants]

I'm curious about what has been recced to you as optimistic and hopeful, as some of it might be stuff I would like! :D

[lizbee]

The Long Way To A Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers is one that keeps coming up, no matter how many times I explain that it was incredibly boring and I didn't finish it.

And The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison, which I did finish, but only because I felt obliged to complete it for Hugos-voting reasons, and also I kept waiting to see if the "awesome female characters" would ever get to do anything.

[archangelbeth]

DISCO IS FINALLY ON DVD? AHHHHHH! YEEEEESSSSSSS!!! HOOORAY!!!!!

Ahem. Thank you for telling me this. I will now recommence running around and shrieking in happiness that I FINALLY GET TO SEE THIS. (Seriously, my first real exposure to Discovery has been... Star Trek Online's Disco tutorial and a few episodes. Which I was amused by, so this is good!)