I suspect this is a direct consequence of abstinence-only sex-ed

[lizbee]

But an awful lot of Tumblr users are still having trouble with the concept that Toph can have a baby but not a husband.

Comments

[amberfox]

Silly peoples. Women don't have to have husbands to have babies; they just have to borrow a penis for a minute or two. (If you're doing it the old-fashioned way, anyway.)

I'll skip my rant on the stupidity of abstinence-based "sex ed" on the assumption that I'd be preaching to the choir.

[swatkat]

At this point I suspect they would be happier with the 'Toph created her out of clay' theory than 'Toph had a child ~out of wedlock'.

[sqbr]

I do hope Toph didn't have a husband. It always brings me great glee to see children born out of wedlock in kids things, I had VERY FEW examples to look up to growing up. Not that I felt any great shame about it, but it's nice for kids to see reflections of their lives.

(but of course that would be encouraging IMMORAL BEHAVIOUR IN YOUNG PEOPLE. I wonder if Disney got any flack for Ratatouille)

[lizbee]

In my more cynical moments (ie, when I'm awake) I suspect that the "Toph formed Lin out of clay" joke gained so much traction because fandom is uncomfortable with a disabled woman having a sexuality. (The tendency to pair her off chastely with Teo doesn't help.)

[lizbee]

What do you want to bet Toph being a single mother would be FAR MORE UNSUITABLE FOR CHILDREN than Ursa murdering Zuko's grandfather and being exiled?

[lizbee]

(If you're doing it the old-fashioned way, anyway.)

BASTER BABY

[melengro]

Different but related, I do find some of the projection of contemporary Western ideas about cousin relationships into discussion of the in-universe plausibility of Sokka being Lin's father somewhat amusing, even though it's not an idea I'm wedded to myself.

[lizbee]

True, though in fairness, traditional Chinese rules about consanguinity are even stricter than contemporary western notions.

[melengro]

Are they? Interesting. I'm more familiar with Japanese ones, which are rather looser. I was aware that Chinese rules were stricter than Japanese rules but I wouldn't have guessed that they were stricter than ours.

[lizbee]

I believe, and I'm going off memory and Wikipedia here, so I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the traditional laws of consanguinity cover even people who are not, to their knowledge, related, but who have the same surname.

[windtear]

If I Recall Correctly (and given that my degree is in Asian History, I'm inclined to give myself the benefit of the doubt), consanguinity in traditional China was limited to persons with the same family name - so first cousins/aunts/uncles were okay so long as they were from your mother's family and so were not officially part of your family. (Best-known/most-easily-accessible example: in The Dream of the Red Chamber the lead character is married off to his first cousin who is the daughter of his mother's sister, rather than the first cousin who is daughter of his father's brother and who he happens to be madly in love with, because the first girl has her father's family name while the second has the same surname as him - but they are both his cousins.) But yes, you were forbidden to marry total strangers if they happened to have the same surname as you.

[lizbee]

Ahhhhhh. I think I must have done a rather ethnocentric reading, and just assumed the mother's family was automatically included in the restrictions, just because.

[amaresu]

I can't speak for Chinese but I remember a discussion in high school where two Hmong students were utterly grossed out when someone joked about if they got married they wouldn't have to argue about who changed their name.

[terajk]

HTML FAILURE this morning, geez.


(The tendency to pair her off chastely with Teo doesn't help.)

I'm the LAST person to complain about putting disabled characters together in any way for any reason, OR to complain about asexual characters/characters in asexual relationships (Speaking of! I really like mazily's A Problem of Geodynamics with ace!Toph/Katara), but. Uh.

Also now I am bitter, because if people are shipping disabled characters with each other why aren't more of them shipping Toph with Azula?! *Pouts*

Although as an asexual disabled person who loves disabled characters I RUN INTO PROBLEMS. (But sometimes the asexual disabled characters who also fit the Doctor Who principle, oh dear end up the kinkiest characters by FAR.)

And, well, you know my headcanon about Teo's sexuality XD.

[innerbrat]

I KNEW LIN WAS WONDER WOMAN. I KNEW IT.

Where is my Korra/Lin/Asami as the Trinity fanart, fandom? Fix it.

[swatkat]

Hee. I was totally making Wonder Woman comparisons after episode ten - she's get the selfless sacrifice thing down perfectly.

Korra is too bouncy to be Batman, so that leaves Asami as Bats... It kind of fits, given her general penchant to ~lurk ominously in the shadows these days, and her badass Satomobile.

I WANT THIS NOW.

[innerbrat]

Asami has basically been Batman to me since the episode in which it was revealed there was a secret cave under her mansion. The kickass non-bending fighting skills and her wonderful toys just sealed the deal for me.



Korra is the symbolic leader, left her real parents at an early age, has a polar retreat, and really likes to punch things. And if you squint: she's a firebender, which is powered by the sun. And she wears blue, that's all I got.

[swatkat]

Lin's a very grumpy Wonder Woman, though. More Kate Beaton than DCU proper.

[d_generate_girl]

Ugh, that is SO irritating. Why is it so "taboo" or "bad" to think that Toph had a kid out of wedlock? Maybe she was married to Lin's father once, but isn't anymore. Maybe it was a one-time sperm-donor thing. Maybe she and Sokka got drunk one night. It's not like it takes away any from Toph's badassery or ability to be a mother.

(Ohhh, do not *start* me on the "OMG TOKKA CAN'T BE CANON THAT'D MAKE LINZIN INCEST". Because no. Sokka could have been her adoptive father or her awesome and fabulous uncle-who-later-married-her-mom. Quit with the dumb, fandom.)

[melengro]

From what I can see there's some leeway for cross-cousins; Chinese kinship makes a distinction between cross, male parallel, and female parallel cousins. Then again, I'm somebody who's fascinated with kinship systems and I don't really understand this well, so I guess I shouldn't expect Korra fandom to, or care if they did. NOT EVERY INCEST SQUICK IS THE SAME INCEST SQUICK ACROSS CULTURES, as a general rule, is what I'm saying.

I also just learned that nine of the fifty United States are the only places in the world where attempting cousin marriage is actually a criminal offence, which is interesting.

EDIT: Female parallel cousins too, as windtear said! Again, I was aware that these rules and distinctions existed, but they aren't terribly common in Japan so I'm not that familiar with them.

[lizbee]

Also now I am bitter, because if people are shipping disabled characters with each other why aren't more of them shipping Toph with Azula?! *Pouts*

I think because it's still acceptable for fandom to say she's not an abuse survivor with a mental illness, she's a MONSTER BITCH WHORE who needs to be imprisoned in circumstances that would have seemed inhumane in the 19th century.

But I'm feeling a bit anti-fandom at the moment, so I might be extra-cynical.

And, well, you know my headcanon about Teo's sexuality XD.

I DO.

[lizbee]

I also just learned that nine of the fifty United States are the only places in the world where attempting cousin marriage is actually a criminal offence, which is interesting.

Yeah, where I wrote fic where Azula had been betrothed to Lu Ten, I was told I'd have to warn for that.

[melengro]

I mean, I'm very close to my extended family and hence wouldn't marry any of my cousins because that would just be really, really personally awkward and I don't like thinking about it, but I'm always a little surprised by just how strong the taboo is in the United States even compared to the rest of the Western world (particularly considering classist/racist inbreeding stereotypes about certain elements of American society; however in that case the strength of the taboo might be part of why those stereotypes have worked so well for so long as calumnies).

[archangelbeth]

I had gotten... from elsewhere... That there is apparently tradition for "husband takes the woman's name" in cases where there is no male heir. This wasn't necessarily a very respected thing for the guy to do? So it might "just" be that her parents arranged something and she decided to go along with it for her own reasons.

(Which would certainly be interesting enough, especially if Mr BeiFong was still around -- but really, I'm fairly keen on the "Toph shows up pregnant/with kid and everyone is afraid to ask, and she only smirks" theory, m'self.

However, this "was made out of clay" theory is very seductive. Though I just realized that Toph wouldn't use clay. Toph is the Greatest Earthbender In The World. Toph would use star-metal.)

[terajk]

I think because it's still acceptable for fandom to say she's not an abuse survivor with a mental illness, she's a MONSTER BITCH WHORE who needs to be imprisoned in circumstances that would have seemed inhumane in the 19th century.

Azula did horrible, horrible things (and local one is so far not at all sorry in the traditional sense), but...*hides in happy white_lotus corner of fandom and refuses to come out*


Also, I forgot the thing about shipping Toph and Teo CHASTELY. Toph and Azula won't let me ship them chastely, because, as recessional said to me a while ago, they're just helping me develop as a writer. They also think me trying to write porn is HILARIOUS.

(There may also be an undercurrent in some places of: "Either Azula is totally cured or can NEVER DO ANYTHING AGAIN," but like I said, I'm in my safe fandom corner.)

[lizbee]

Azula did horrible, horrible things (and local one is so far not at all sorry in the traditional sense), but...*hides in happy white_lotus * corner of fandom and refuses to come out*

I was reading an article about sociopathic children, and many never grasp the concept of right and wrong as moral forces, but learn the concepts well enough to apply them in every day life anyway.

They also think me trying to write porn is HILARIOUS.

IT IS. Except, say, you're trying to write Tenzin/Lin, and first there is an earthquake, and then there are gale force winds. *eyedart*

[terajk]

I was reading an article about sociopathic children, and many never grasp the concept of right and wrong as moral forces, but learn the concepts well enough to apply them in every day life anyway.

It's really helpful for me to think of Azula's conscience like my sense of direction. (My sense of direction being somewhere between rudimentary-but-mostly-useless to non-existent.) It's much more expedient for me to use other skills, even if they're slower than *other people's* sense of direction, or are imperfect.

So, as a very simple example (I need to poke Azula about this some more), Azula doesn't experience guilt or remorse (shame is different--she has that), but could think something like: "That time I spent in prison was horrible and also ABANDONMENT, so killing Zuko's stupid friends isn't very useful."

[terajk]

"....And, plus, it's more fun to mess with their heads, anyway."