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lizbeeAs of September 2022, I had read The Hobbit once and The Lord of the Rings twice. The first read was when I was 12, because my reading age had allegedly stagnated (actually I didn't understand why we were doing an identical reading comprehension test as six months earlier, so gave the same answers) and my parents wanted me to read Proper Literature.
(Joke's on them, now I read Jane Austen for fun and they think it's super weird.)
The second read was because it was 2001 and the first movie was coming out.
And, like, it was fine. I didn't really connect with Tolkien's prose, but everyone said it was good, so I assumed they were right. And I walked out of every single movie -- and the first Hobbit film -- going, "You know, maybe this isn't for me? Maybe I just don't like Tolkien?"
So it's 2022 and along comes Rings of Power, which is clearly a cynical cash grab and going to be very very bad. But we figured we should watch it to see what everyone was talking about, and also watching it alongside House of the Dragon (another cynical cash grab that was clearly going to be bad) might be fun.
It turns out that all I have ever wanted from Middle Earth wasHobbit Harfoot girls having adventures and Tolkien's long-running allegory for grief and war trauma but in a lady. And also Bronwyn and Arondir, my hearts. I loved the whole season, from the slow pace (thank you for trusting the audience to follow along and let you establish your worldbuilding and characters, I wish House of the Dragon had done the same!) to the costumes to the characters. (Could there be more than one female character in every group? Yes. Only the Harfoots get to have multiple women, apparently. But you compare that to the books and films, well...)
Now I have reread the books (I'm into the LotR appendices and have The Silmarillion lined up next) and watched the extended editions of the LotR films (they are very long indeed!) and I'm going to watch the Hobbit films even though they're bad, purely because (a) I hear Elrond is in character; (b) the White Council; (c) my brother's review was "I very much enjoyed the stories they chose to tell, especially when those stories were The Hobbit," and this intrigues me.
In this journey, I have reached a bunch of conclusions:
(Joke's on them, now I read Jane Austen for fun and they think it's super weird.)
The second read was because it was 2001 and the first movie was coming out.
And, like, it was fine. I didn't really connect with Tolkien's prose, but everyone said it was good, so I assumed they were right. And I walked out of every single movie -- and the first Hobbit film -- going, "You know, maybe this isn't for me? Maybe I just don't like Tolkien?"
So it's 2022 and along comes Rings of Power, which is clearly a cynical cash grab and going to be very very bad. But we figured we should watch it to see what everyone was talking about, and also watching it alongside House of the Dragon (another cynical cash grab that was clearly going to be bad) might be fun.
It turns out that all I have ever wanted from Middle Earth was
Now I have reread the books (I'm into the LotR appendices and have The Silmarillion lined up next) and watched the extended editions of the LotR films (they are very long indeed!) and I'm going to watch the Hobbit films even though they're bad, purely because (a) I hear Elrond is in character; (b) the White Council; (c) my brother's review was "I very much enjoyed the stories they chose to tell, especially when those stories were The Hobbit," and this intrigues me.
In this journey, I have reached a bunch of conclusions:
- Tolkien fandom is THE WORST -- there is so much gatekeeping, racism and early '00s style misogyny, it is genuinely the most unpleasant fandom into which I have ever dipped a toe. And I say that as a Trekkie and Star Wars sequel trilogy fan.
- Tolkien himself is GREAT -- like, yes, his ideas are very old fashioned and I would like to buy him a drink and tell him to be a bit less racist, BUT his ideas and his world are vast enough to accommodate the changing mores of his audience, and I respect that
- Also, there's this whole THING where Middle Earth was flat until the people of Numenor tried to invade Elf Heaven, and in the cataclysm that followed, the world became round. THAT IS BONKERS. I LOVE IT
- Like, why are people fretting about volcano physics when the world is flat but soon to become round? Why are people mad that Galadriel can see over the curvature of the planet WHEN THE PLANET IS FLAT
- this is Dune level absurdity
- I'm so happy
- the fact that Tolkien fandom is too busy being upset about women and Black people having stories to tell newbies that THE WORLD IS FLAT BUT SOON IT'LL BE ROUND just proves my point about it being THE WORST
- Tolkien is great
- Peter Jackson is THE WORST, or, at least, his films diminished every single character except Gandalf (and there I think it's mostly just Ian McKellan saving us all) and arguably Aragorn, and the visuals are great but the storytelling is sad and small
- Rings of Power doesn't have consistently amazing dialogue, but it's full of people from all walks of life who are curious and kind -- or trying to be -- and that makes all the difference
- Galadriel can fight a volcano if she wants to
- I need to rewatch RoP once I'm done with the Hobbit films because I zoned out in every single scene featuring [the dude who turned out to be Sauron], and from the way Tumblr is going crazy for him, I feel like I missed something
- OTOH, "Liz totally blanks the Dark Lord because he's the most generic white dude you ever saw and she had him confused with someone else for a while" is extremely on brand for me
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Date: 2022-11-01 12:38 am (UTC)YES
I totally wanted Poppy to go along at the end (she's Sam! Poppy is Sam!) and I greatly enjoyed every second Nazanin Boniadi and Ismael Cruz Córdova were on my screen //shallow and give Morfydd Clark lots of awards already. Elrond and the Dwarves were fun too.
Tolkien fandom is THE WORST -- there is so much gatekeeping, racism and early '00s style misogyny, it is genuinely the most unpleasant fandom into which I have ever dipped a toe. And I say that as a Trekkie and Star Wars sequel trilogy fan.
LOL same. I wonder if it's something about book fandoms -- Jane Austen fans had the legendary "Fanny wars" and Mary Renault fandom on LJ was reportedly batshit. But just, Jesus. And I thought the backlash against Michael on Discovery and Rey in the sequel films was bad. I have never seen so many fanboys lose their shit about like three (3) (THREE) minor parts going to Black actors. (I mean, I don't think of Míriel or Arondir as "minor" but how much screentime did they get....?) It was about equal to the Ghostbusters insanity. Do not meddle with the nostalgia of fanboys, for they are little men and quick to go batshit.
the fact that Tolkien fandom is too busy being upset about women and Black people having stories to tell newbies that THE WORLD IS FLAT BUT SOON IT'LL BE ROUND just proves my point about it being THE WORST
Tolkien is great
Yes and YES
Peter Jackson is THE WORST, or, at least, his films diminished every single character except Gandalf (and there I think it's mostly just Ian McKellan saving us all) and arguably Aragorn, and the visuals are great but the storytelling is sad and small
YESSSSSS I'm so glad to see these films being re-evaluated what is it, ten years down the line? (Try again, more like TWENTY. lolsob) I remember them being lauded for the CGI and the epic whatever and even the dialogue, and I just thought they....weren't very faithful to Tolkien's vision, at all, and were full of DUMB jokes and really stupid stunts (Legolas surfing down the trunk of an elephant, everyone). ROP had the epic, gorgeous visuals I wanted from Jackson (I always thought his Lothlorien looked plastic) but also the sense of....smaller people, regular people, not just
HobbitsHarfoots but he never loses sight of the humanity of his characters, I think. It's a big Thing. And the Jackson LOTR movies totally botched that by turning most of them into archetypes. Lolzy archetypes. Also, these people had FLAWS! They did bad things out of good motives! They failed to foresee stuff! They struggled with their emotions and reasoning! YES PLZ.Galadriel can fight a volcano if she wants to
OMFG the number of times I saw "how can she survive a stochastic flow" (that's not the word, I don't remember what it was) and DUDE. It's a story about IMMORTAL ELVES and she has already lived THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Realist nitpicking is not going to work here.
From what I could tell they had lots of practical sets and dialed back the CGI (so did the Sandman show) and it was just gorgeous. The costumes were gorgeous, the scenery was amazing and enchanted, the interiors looked like actual places and not just sets.
I need to rewatch RoP once I'm done with the Hobbit films because I zoned out in every single scene featuring [the dude who turned out to be Sauron], and from the way Tumblr is going crazy for him, I feel like I missed something
Yyyyyeah. The other guy they are going crazy for is the evil not-Orc and I didn't like him either. But I fully admit I am a Galadriel fangirl and for me this was The Galadriel Show. She was so fighty and brave and scarred and unsubtle! ....fandom also immediately went off on this whole thing of "she was BLINDED by her own STUPIDITY and couldn't tell he was evil," and the show was clearly paralleling them, like, they both explicitly SAY SO in one scene. That's pretty far from Jackson showing Cate Blanchett as the mysterious beauty queen and Sauron the "visual depiction of a raging yeast infection," as one friend of mine described him, but if I can put up with people gushing over the 2015 Pride and Prejudice adaptation Tolkien fanboys can deal with this one. (Really I think the Jackson fans were angrier than the Silm fans. Altho the Silm fans were still pretty angry.)
The (two white male) showrunners said season 2 is going to be a LOT MORE like what people expected, i.e. more battles and action, and a LOT MORE about Sauron, and lol, I'll just rewatch season one a lot I guess if that's true.
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Date: 2022-11-01 12:46 am (UTC)I love Tolkien. He is great, and yes, he's old fashioned in many ways but he was also clearly capable of looking and thinking and changing. Tolkien fandom, I don't engage with.
I adored Rings of Power! I have always wanted The Lord of the Rings, but about Galadriel, actually, and this has so much more, especially Harfoots! And Bronwyn and Arondir! and Adar! and also that dude who turned out to be Sauron, which my 14 year old son called more or less as soon as he turned up.
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Date: 2022-11-01 01:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-01 01:38 am (UTC)Glad to hear it! I was on the fence about checking this show out, due to mixed reviews, but this sold me. Thanks. :)
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Date: 2022-11-01 02:37 am (UTC)And this is not just fanBOYS! At least, I don't think it was men on composing Tumblr essays about how it's COOL when Legolas does fancy horse riding but PROBLEMATIC AND OFFENSIVE when it's Galadriel. (In binary terms, I noticed that men called Galadriel a Mary Sue, and women called her first "girlboss!Galadriel" and then, as she proved proficient in battle, "Guyladriel". I mean.
I mean, I feel like they've done enough set-up to earn it, but also I don't see them dropping any of the subplots except maybe Bronwyn and Arondir. (Which I'd be okay with, they get a happy-ish ending, but I hope we see more of them.)
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Date: 2022-11-01 02:38 am (UTC)My brother called it a few eps in, and I was like, "No way. Him? Nah, he's not interesting enough!"
ANYWAYYYYYY
I'm probably giving him too much credit, but he seems like someone who, if he were alive today, would be excited by the new discoveries about diversity in medieval Europe, and probably getting extremely geeky about linguistic connections.
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Date: 2022-11-01 02:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-01 02:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-01 02:43 am (UTC)Oh, my FUCKING GOD. //horrified
....this just proves my shallowness but I think if they had picked a different type of actor I would be more interested in Sauron. As it was, I just wasn't impressed with Charlie Vickers. He barely nailed the okay-guy-with-undercurrents for me and as it is I dooo not care about his slide into evil. I'm trying to think who would pull it off....he wouldn't be right for the part, but Hugh Dancy has managed to be attractive yet unsettling in a number of things. Alan Rickman of course was great at it. Of course, if they'd had someone with actual star wattage, it would have interfered with The Galadriel Show for me, lol. Damn she was good.
At this point I want "girlboss" and "Mary Sue" just Eternal Sunshine'd from the mind of every single fan. Those words might as well be giant red neon signs saying "SEXISM ALERT" now. ("Mary Sue" was something specific! It didn't mean "female character you think is too good at things.")
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Date: 2022-11-01 02:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-01 02:48 am (UTC)You are Wise.
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Date: 2022-11-01 02:49 am (UTC)I think casting an unknown as Sauron was a good move, but my jury is out until we find out more about his deal, ie, why was he on that boat?
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Date: 2022-11-01 02:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-01 02:50 am (UTC)(I am convinced that Ian McKellan played Gandalf as being slightly in love with Aragorn, but that could just be the effect that proximity to Viggo has on anyone who is attracted to men)
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Date: 2022-11-01 02:53 am (UTC)What I noticed was there seemed to be a WHOLE LOT of Legolas/Aragorn right onscreen. (And I sulked because they put prettyboy Orlando Bloom into that horrible wig. I had so many wig related problems with those movies.)
I particularly wanted that scene between Christopher Lee and Ian McKellen to go on forever. that was hott
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Date: 2022-11-01 02:59 am (UTC)EX. ACT. LY.
(It doesn't mean "flawless woman who is too good at everything"! It meant "self-insert"! And it's totally normal for adolescents to insert themselves into fantasies about their favourite fiction! Arghghghg) (And why were young girls doing it? BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T IN THE STORIES. But you had an ACTUAL supposed Gary Stu in canon right there with Wesley Crusher, who was obviously "what if an adolescent male could be on the bridge of the starship." And there he was! arghg)
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Date: 2022-11-01 05:32 am (UTC)I was actually delighted that Halbrand turned out to be Sauron becouse otherwise he was just that inexplicably present dude. It gave him a reason to be in the show other than fanboy representation.
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Date: 2022-11-01 05:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-16 04:57 am (UTC)I have a type, and that type is emotionally damaged magic lady. I need icons.
Also I was utterly in love with Bronwyn. And Miriel. And Disa.
Women in RoP were movers and shakers. They had actual power to influence the world.
I definitely need icons.
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Date: 2022-11-16 05:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-16 05:13 am (UTC)