Your intermittent dose of stupid

[lizbee]

I KNOW I SHOULD STOP FOLLOWING LINKS, BUT I REALLY ENJOY THE TOTAL COMPREHENSION FAIL HERE. Especially the Proper Feminist Concern that Amy's job is "morally degrading" and her legs are too prominent. Yes, girls, you can be pretty, sexy, clever AND admirable! Sometimes all at the same time!

A bunch of us were talking on Twitter yesterday, about how some fans dislike Amy, or think she is badly written/acted/whatever because they expect her to act and react like a normal person. Which is fine, but for those of us who do not act and react like normal people, and who have to make a considerable effort to figure out how to interact with people like Rose and Donna, she's a breath of fresh air. It's probably not by coincidence that a lot of the same people also glommed onto Martha, who was closer to "normal" than Amy, but who spoke in terms of sci-fi and movie cliches, and read Harry Potter, and generally spoke our language.

And if I wasn't totally behind on getting ready for work, I would expand my thoughts out properly. In short, though: STUPID.

Comments

[pontisbright]

I was totes having the same thought process after that comment you made on your fic. Maybe all the weird random Amy-haters (disregarding the ones who think that having legs is some sort of crime) are genuinely just people who have an uncomplicated relationship with reality and normality, and don't have that second-level constant 'what am I meant to do now, then? oh yes, I remember learning this from watching those other people' narrative running in their minds to allow them to function.

But that all makes sense for Amy, SO much - even considering that there's really rather a lot of backstory there that we just know sod all about. And know some of it she knows sod all about too...sniffle...

[lizbee]

But that all makes sense for Amy, SO much - even considering that there's really rather a lot of backstory there that we just know sod all about. And know some of it she knows sod all about too...sniffle...

HE IS NOT DEAD! HE IS IN E-SPACE!

I think, even as a small child, Amy was like that. The Doctor even comments on it, although he thinks it's a consequence of her fear of the crack. (Who knows, maybe it's a result of sleeping in the same room as the crack.) Losing her parents, then the Doctor, whatever kind of relationship she had with her aunt, and biting psychiatrists -- it would be strange if she did think like everyone else.

[nonelvis]

Which is fine, but for those of us who do not act and react like normal people, and who have to make a considerable effort to figure out how to interact with people like Rose and Donna, she's a breath of fresh air.

Not that this will come as a surprise to you, given Twitter conversations, but THIS. Exactly.

(Also, you appear to have left the 'l' off the end of the doctorwho link, so it's 404'ing.)

[lizbee]

Oh, thanks.

And, y'know, no denigration to Rose and Donna intended, and I wouldn't have lasted as long as I did in retail without figuring out how to say more or less the right thing. But their minds, they are somewhat alien to me.

[fannishnonsense]

Yeah, Amy's Weirdness is sort of essential to her character, and a big part of why I love her so much (though I do tend to like most companions, really). I suppose it makes sense that the more normal people in fandom would find that hard to relate to though. Of course, they already have plenty of characters to relate to on TV, so I don't feel particularly bad for them either.

[copracat]

Amy is supposed to not be acting like a normal person? She seems not particularly strange to me. She's intelligent, enthusiastic, adventurous, decisive under pressure, strangely enough, at 22, she questioned whether getting married was the right choice though I admit she didn't do this in a mature, talking it out with your partner fashion, but by having a bit of a running away, kissing another guy freak out. But that's scarcely bizarre human behaviour.

I ask you because the post you link appears to be deleted. Read the other comments and added the 'l'.

Why do I hate Amy? BECAUSE YOU ARE A HATER, YOU IDIOT. Sorry, did I say that out loud?

[malaleen]

One of the reason's I'm not posting much about DW this year is because of this negativity towards the new direction of the show. I personally love Amy and Eleven and was very tired of the emotional run around RTD loved to produce.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same show as they are :(

[calapine]

It is sad but the bit I am most WTF about is that season 13 Sarah is somehow an improvement on season 11.

[amaresu]

That actually is a perfect summation of why I love Amy. Thank you.

I'm not normal and I don't think normal and Amy makes a lot more sense to me.

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Huh. You know, I was saying the other day that I thought I identified with Amy more than the others (even Donna, who I thought, "she's a temp like me!, but I don't get her..." about), and I wasn't even sure why. But... that makes sense now.

I loved the nontraditional nature of the female companions, sure they tripped, screamed and got kidnapped

Nontraditional... Somehow, I do not think that word means what you think it does.

(wow, I love how the entire post boils down to "validate my hatred of her legs, pls")

[alienist]

I was actually wondering the other day if, when people say "bad acting", they just mean they haven't seen certain emotions conveyed certain ways, or don't do so themselves.

[tempestsarekind]

That's an interesting idea--I've been seeing this "bad acting" thing used as a defense of why people don't like Amy, and I haven't been able to make much sense of it because I love watching Karen Gillan, probably because she doesn't always do the expected thing or react in the usual way. Same thing with the whole "Amy has no emotions, how dare she call Rory clingy for expressing concern about her?!?" outrage, when I'm sitting there thinking that this is clearly marked as a joke being used to deal with a scary situation, not an actual admonishment. Maybe some people don't get that reaction?

(Here from LJ, by the way. I am now regretting the time I just spent reading that link to doctorwho. I get people's feelings that we haven't gotten a lot of overtly spelled-out backstory with Amy, and hey, I love backstory--and would totally watch a whole episode just about her and Rory in Leadworth, but that's neither here nor there--but just like not knowing exactly why and on what date Martha decided to become a doctor didn't make me doubt her commitment to being one, I don't need Amy's whole history to feel like I know and like her.)

[sqbr]

See, I would also be annoyed if Amy's arc ends with the moral "And then she gave up being a kissogram and got married and made babies and was a perfect housewife, yay heteronormativity"(*). But I don't see that as a reason to hate Amy, any more than Donna's incredibly annoying ending is a reason to hate Donna.

Have rewatched some of the RTD Who with Cam who is using it to sate his newfound Who obsession and...yeah. Not seeing the vast superiority.

(*)Which is not to say I'd have a problem with her getting married etc in principle, only if it was explicitly framed as "And then she grew up and like any sensible woman got married and had babies and stopped being silly and thinking girls could go on adventures" or whatever, which is what the OP seems to be worried about.

[snorkackcatcher]

Amy isn't a particularly normal person, that's the point -- unless having cracks in the universe and madmen in blue boxes randomly appearing in your childhood home is normal, of course. But even saying that, she comes across as a perfectly comprehensible (and very appealing) character. Not that I'm especially normal either, I suppose.

As for "badly acted" -- huh? One thing that struck me from hearing Matt Smith reading the audio story "The Runaway Train" was just how much of Amy's actual Amyness comes from the nuances of Karen Gillan's performance rather than the script. A good example would be the end of "Amy's Choice" -- she has some really quite corny and cliched lines there, but puts them across so well they seem totally right and fresh.

[tree_and_leaf]

It has struck me that some of her "angry" lines sound a bit - well, forced. Then I reflected that I know people who sound like that when they're angry; generally people who are trying not to flip out and possibly even to sound conciliatory - but are too cross to control the hostility. So actually it's pretty good work.

But then, I'm not normal, either.

[rj_anderson]

Exactly right. I liked Donna a lot, and in her better scripts, I liked Rose too. But not because I had any particular understanding of the way they thought and acted, or any sense of identification with them. Their personality types were far too different from my own. But as someone who grew up as a weird isolated kid who lived in her own daydreams, and always seemed slightly (or not so slightly) out of step with the expectations of people around her? I feel like I understand Amy just fine.

[syzygy_dw]

I was that kid, too, and I have no problem at all with Amy. I think that she's broken, and trying desperately to hide it and appear to be living a normal life instead of in a fairy tale (hence getting married in the first place). She's never fit in, and has decided not to bother. And then her imaginary friend comes back into her life and offers her the chance to live the fairy tale that she's pretending to ignore, and she has to re-examine everything.

I think Amy is ultimately a tragic figure, and that's what's so appealing about her.

[brigid31]

I never thought about it that way but her strangeness is probably why I immediately liked Amy. I GOT her in a way I never really got the other New Who companions and even though I liked all of them (to varying degrees) it was never as fast as I fell for Amy.

[aria]

fdsldsjfd thank you, you just articulated things in a way I'd never thought to do, and NOW I UNDERSTAND WHY I LOVE AMY AND MARTHA SO. And also it gives me good language with which to explain why, though I find Donna awesome, I don't find her The Awesomest the way some of my friends do.

Now I'm trying to imagine Amy and Martha hanging out. I ... don't quite know how it would go, actually! Maybe if Ace was also there as a buffer?

[spintheiryarns]

I just went and looked briefly, despite my better judgment, and

Why are her legs such an issue? Her legs have become the third companion in this series. I feel as though her sexuality is great, but i may be drowning out the rest of the show at least for me

That's not Amy being a poorly-written character, bb, that's just you knowing an excellent pair of legs when you see them. :9

[ide_cyan]

Word.

Plus, Amy's legs would probably get on great with Tegan's.

[syzygy_dw]

All of this wank is why I have finally left that comm. I am tired of the negativity and the hate. They can't seem to find anything to like about this show, which makes me wonder why they watch it at all. I don't mind a bit of debate, or differing of opinion, but come on.

[biichan]

Heh. As another participant in yesterday's discussion, I will just say: Yes. This.

It's like I said before, if you don't know what it's like to feel like you don't know how to be a real person (or proper person or whatever) you probably don't get Amy Pond. Because I think those of us who have felt that way at one time or another are probably the ones who've imprinted so clearly on to her.

[ranrata]

Thank you for this post! I lovelovelove Amy (and Martha), but I didn't realize until now that this was the reason why. And the combined oddness of the Doctor and Amy is really making Series 5 and the Doctor/companion dynamic work for me in a way the rest of New Who hasn't. Because now I can actually relate!

[jaythenerdkid]

I just don't get it. It's like there's this whole section of fandom that thinks the moment that you as a woman have some self-worth or confidence that has nothing to do with male approval, you're...not good enough? Too good? Somehow wrong or unnatural?

What does that even say about the female fans who write this stuff? It makes me wonder - do they see girls out on the street having fun and being confident and think, "Wow, she's giving in to sexism, look at the way she's dressed!"? Do they look at girls like me, who are confident about their sexualities and their appearances and their abilities, and somehow find us lacking because...what, we're not self-flagellating enough? Because we're letting ourselves feel good about ourselves? I don't even get what their problem is - isn't that sort of what feminism is about anyway?

I wrote this thing ages ago about how the feminist movement can seem really impenetrable to outsiders because there's all this anger and hatred targeted not just at men, but at women who for whatever reason don't fit in with their idea of what a Strong Woman should be. It's like this subset of the movement has decided that women who are successful and going places in life and who feel good about themselves are somehow Betraying The Sisterhood because they're not suffering with all the rest of the girls. Which...seriously, if you're going to resent other women for being successful, what's your idea of feminism anyway? That none of us ever get anywhere and all we do is rail against the injustices of the patriarchy, but at least we're all in it together? That nobody is allowed to dress nicely or enjoy the company of men or be successful in the workplace because by being happy, you're letting all the angry people down? How is that fair? How is that feminist?

And now look - I've gone and ranted all over your journal for nothing. But I've read about a zillion posts today about how Amy is a Victim of the Patriarchy because she likes wearing short skirts (I know, I should also stop following links), and I am getting so tired of trying to figure out how these people's minds work.

[ide_cyan]

Magic Mommas, Trembling Sisters.

[usuallyhats]

But for those of us who do not act and react like normal people, and who have to make a considerable effort to figure out how to interact with people like Rose and Donna, she's a breath of fresh air.
This, absolutely!

I have never regretted leaving doctorwho.

[elisi]

A few weeks ago my 8 year old said "Amy is my kind of companion!"

I have since tried to get her to expand on this, but all I've got is 'She's funny' which doesn't tell me much. But I think it's to do with Amy in many ways being quite childlike - she's curious and excited and adventurous and asks questions (sometimes inappropriate ones) and just doesn't hold back much. (My daughter's other favourite companion is Donna btw. 'Cause she's loud and funny and slaps people!)

But I have a point. A few even, maybe. Because Amy is a lot of things.

Amy is the scarred/damaged young woman, who was orphaned as a child and then abandoned by her 'imaginary friend' (who fixed the hole in her wall!) - but she was made stronger by this, refusing to stand down from what she believed in, refusing to behave like she should.

Amy is also us - fans. She is the one who got a taste of magic when she was little and then had to grow up... and yet, when that magical Doctor turns up she gets another chance. Because our show left us, and then came back, and inside, our 7 year old selves are going 'Yes! I remember this!'

Amy is a fairy tale, running away to Neverland with Peter Pan and refusing to grow up. Except of course fairy tales are dangerous, and we have to take care...

Amy and the Doctor are (in the words of Matt Smith) 'two lost souls who find each other'. (A description I love to distraction.) They also spark and combust and don't hold back.

I've loved all the different companions, but I find Amy particularly interesting because she's difficult and complicated, and so's her relationship with the Doctor.

Aaaand I appear to have written a small essay in your journal, hope you don't mind. Just... been thinking. Oh and I friended you. :)

[allfireburns]

Do you mind if I add you? I've come across a bunch of your posts that really made me happy on DW's latest things in the past... however long, and I think you are kind of fantastic. And this whole post just hit perfectly on why Amy and Martha are my girls, and all I can say is "OMG YES, THIS."

[lizbee]

Yes, feel free to friend me! You don't have to ask.

[my_daroga]

I'm still catching up (only up to "Vampires in Venice") but while I might have a few issues with how the show or the character is written, I quite like Amy. I'll never understand why people tend to speak the way they do about their like/dislike of media, as if there is some cut and dried right and wrong about their perception. Well, I suppose it's natural enough, but the all or nothing style of argument can't help but be absurd and wanky.

Is there a sense in the fandom of some Amy/Martha Rose/Donna divide? Do people tend to align in particular ways?

[insilhouette]

If there is, I am staying far away from it! I like all the companions and hate when fandom wank creates these teams who stay in their forts and pelt things at each other.

[marymac]

All of this yes. This is part of the reason I now have this icon.

And I keep thinking of that line of Diana Wynne Jones' about all upbringings being weird. Amy had a weird upbringing, met a really weird man as a small impressionable person, is weird herself. That is the point, leave her alone.

[summer_sparrow]

I love this post not so much for the Amy awesomeness, but for the comments. I live surrounded by people who react "normally," who don't have to think about what they're supposed to do or say before they do or say it.

I am not alone. I <3 you all.