I love my passive-aggressive Catholic Space Elves!

[lizbee]

suburbannoir and I are into the fourth season of our B5 watch.  It's pretty epic.  Maybe I should have warned her that, in watching the sequence set on Centauri Prime, she is now spoiled for I, Claudius?  Oh well. 

I always forget about Delenn's selective relationship with reality.  It's like she spends the entire series smiling and being demure and quietly rearranging the universe to suit herself.  The best bit is how I'm not even sure how aware she is of what she's doing.  But if there wasn't that ambiguity and element of delusion, I probably wouldn't love her so much.



What I love is how suburbannoir spotted that Lennier is in love with Delenn extremely early, and shortly afterwards figured out that he's a creepy nice guy.  I mean, a lovely one.  But a creeper.  Granted, I may have biased her somewhat by introducing Lennier as the character most likely to be a serial killer, aside from all the other serial killers.  But then, she wound up liking Talia even after I introduced her as "incredibly annoying"! 

So now she's waiting for the episode where Lennier snaps and goes on a killing spree that ends with him dancing through the Zocalo with Sheridan's head.  Why didn't we get that episode?  It would have been amazing!  And also hilarious!

Anyway, Lennier: AMAZING.  From early season 3 he has this epic run of understated "bitch, please" faces that he keeps for when Sheridan does something ... Sheridanish.  Which is often.  AND NO ONE NOTICES.  I LOVE HIS LITTLE FACE SO VERY MUCH!

...even though I still don't get people who think he should have ended up with Delenn.  I mean, firstly, whatever her family wants to think, she is not a prize they hand out for good behaviour (or even shiny white teeth), and secondly -- on learning that she gave the order to begin a genocidal war, he said, "That's totally okay!  It was an accident!"  THAT IS NOT THE FOUNDATION FOR A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP!  That ends with the universe in smoking ruins and Delenn's foot on the neck of the surviving races!  Which, come to think of it, I dig.  But no, Delenn/Lennier is exactly like Azula/Ty Lee for me -- the power imbalance is too great. 

In conclusion, Dukhat may or may not have been the greatest of the Minbari, but he was surely the handsomest. 

Comments

[recessional]

Well that and the really big killer for me is that she doesn't ever seem to think about him that way even for a second. She had more chemistry with IVANOVA. Or even Garibaldi. And I have a huge, huge squick for the "girl should love boy just because boy is obsessively devoted to girl" (despite my love for him as a character, my issue with some of the Marcus plotline, I show you them.)

[lizbee]

OH GOD, MARCUS. There are times when I almost don't hate him, but everything involving him and Ivanova is just blech. Dude, you like her. Stop playing games and say, "Hey, Susan, you're a pretty great person and you mean a lot to me. Would you like to have sex with me with an option for some kind of longer-term arrangement?"

But no, he has to literally nice guy himself to death. Thank God Ivanova never had to contend with Byron.

[eponymous_rose]

Lennier's face! He has the best face.

That ends with the universe in smoking ruins and Delenn's foot on the neck of the surviving races!

I haven't read any Delenn/Lennier fic for exactly the reasons you laid out here (and also because I am generally happy in my tiny little Delenn/Ivanova corner of fandom), but I think I'd be all over a fic that took a darker spin like that. Just saying.

[ruuger]

episode where Lennier snaps and goes on a killing spree that ends with him dancing through the Zocalo with Sheridan's head. Why didn't we get that episode? It would have been amazing

Well, there is a tie-in book where Lennier puts on a loin-cloth and chases people with a spear, does that count?

And I agree with you on Delenn. I just love her arrogance, and how she's willing to rearrange the whole universe to make things her way. The one (and possibly the only) thing I liked about JMS's original plan where Delenn ended up as the mother of Space Jesus was that clearly at some point in that storyline originally!male!Delenn realised that being male rather hindered her chances of making little Space Jesuses with Sinclair, and then just became a half-human woman so that the prophecy would be fulfilled. Because Delenn would not let a small thing like that get in the way of her plans.

[rivendellrose]

Well, there is a tie-in book where Lennier puts on a loin-cloth and chases people with a spear, does that count?

...Sorry to barge in, but... wait, what? o_O When (how?!) did this happen? And why?!

[ruuger]

In The Touch of Your Shadow, the Whisper of Your Name by Neil Barrett Jr. where some space alien thingy caused Lennier to regress to the Minbari equivalent of a caveman.

Here's the whole passage in all its glory:

Thirty minutes later, dressed in a loincloth and bearing a metal pole topped with a sliver of metal he had fashioned himself into a spear, Lennier boldly walked the corridors outside his quarters searching for the woman who had jostled him.

[. . .]

"Defend yourself, Earth scum!" Lennier cried, twirling the spear in his grip so that the sharpened point came into view. Tentatively he jabbed it at the technician, driving her back.

"You're crazy," the tech said, turning to flee.

Lennier ran a few steps after her, then stopped to watch her run.

"Ha ha!" he shouted, brandishing the weapon in front of him. "No one crosses this Minbari's path, lest he die!"

Hiking up his loincloth, pleased with himself, Lennier marched on, looking for more technicians to fight.

yes, this is the actual text from an actual tie-in novel that was actually published. No wonder JMS wanted more control over the later tie-in novels...

[lizbee]

NOTHING ABOUT THAT IS REAL

NOTHING

I MUST INSIST THAT YOU MADE IT UP

[ruuger]

And you know what? That isn't the worst tie-in book, not by far.

Here, have a quote from Personal Agendas by Al Sarrantonio:

"This is all very mysterious, John," Delenn said, giving SHeridan her amused smile. She had met Sheridan where he asked, in a little used area of Down-Below that even looked faintly dangerous.

"And it's supposed to be!" the Captain answered, and then he added, "And don't talk so loud! They might hear us!"

"Who is 'They'?" Delenn asked.

"The bad guys! Agents from SMALL!"

"What is... SMALL?" Delenn inquired, frowning.

"The Secret Martian Allies!"

Delenn's frown suddenly became concern. "Is there such a thing? It sounds... dangerous!"

Still smiling, which confused Delenn even more, Sheridan said, "It is dangerous! They could destroy us and everything we believe in! And no one but me knows about them!"

Now Delenn looked alarmed. "If this is so serious, you shouldn't be smiling, John! And here is something you have kept frm me, this... secret organization not even the Rangers don't know about - I must say that youhave no right-"

Sheridan was laughing, even when he donned a trench coat and put on dark glasses.

"Delenn, I made it all up! It's just a game!"

Now Delenn looked vastly confused; even more so when the Captain unrolled a bundle and handled her a trench coat and dark glasses to wear.

<>[...]<>

Sheridan announced, "Then from this moment on, we are no longer Captain John Sheridan and Ambassador Delenn - but Agents X and Y!"

"Am I X or Y?"

"I think Y would be better, Sheridan said."

"I think I want to be... X!"

"X it is, then!" Sheridan declared, and they both laughed.

[lizbee]

Excuse me. I have to go delete that from my brain forever.

Dear God, I thought some of the fic was awful!

[rivendellrose]

...I think I can understand now why JMS insisted on taking editorial control over the tie-ins. My god that's poor. I mean really, really, really poor. Wow.

[kerravonsen]

(blinks)
That is... inconceivable.
What was the writer smoking when he wrote that?

[rivendellrose]

Oh. My. God. I'm going to be giggling all day just thinking about that. Thank you. ♥

...It really does make bad fanfiction suddenly look so much better, doesn't it? o_O

[rivendellrose]

So now she's waiting for the episode where Lennier snaps and goes on a killing spree that ends with him dancing through the Zocalo with Sheridan's head. Why didn't we get that episode? It would have been amazing! And also hilarious!

Not sure... I think we should blame WB. Or possibly JMS's total lack of sense of humor regarding people breaking up his One Twu Pairings.

...Also, I totally agree with you on the immense power imbalance between Delenn and Lennier, while admitting to a perverse fascination with them. However, I much prefer Delenn/Neroon. Equal power, equal bitchiness. ♥

[lizbee]

DELENN/NEROON! With the awkwardness of how they were both in love with Branmer at different stages of their lives!

I also luuuuuuuuuuuuurve Delenn/Dukhat, but there the power imbalance becomes interesting because it's a temporary state.

[calapine]

But then, she wound up liking Talia even after I introduced her as "incredibly annoying"!

She tots is, but I love her anyway.

I NEVER USED TO FIND LENNIER CREEPY BTW. I blame YOOOOU.

[lizbee]

HE IS A LOVELY CREEPER, BUT A BIT STRANGE NONETHELESS

LIKE, HE WOULD TELL ROSE OFF FOR ENDANGERING TWO UNIVERSES TO GET TO THE DOCTOR

BUT THEN HE WOULD BORROW THE DIMENSIONAL CANNON JUST IN CASE A UNIVERSE EVER CAME BETWEEN HIM AND DELENN

[rivendellrose]

Obviously this is true, but only because Delenn is so much more important than the Doctor and/or the universe! It's a matter of principle and destiny! You only can't understand it because you're a Human. :P