So who wants to feel a little stupider?

[lizbee]

Use and Abuse of Power in Avatar: the Last Airbender. This was linked -- with approval -- by Racebending's Tumblr, of all places! And naturally I went along to read it, because it's an interesting discussion, especially in light of Korra, and I figured if Racebending were linking it, it probably wasn't declaring Korra a white supremacist.

Things I have learnt:

- parsing a show made for eight year olds is really, really hard
- European philosophy gives good and non-problematic grounds for dismissing a concept steeped in Asian cultures
- having a really big army means you're really popular and thus justified to conquer places

Then I had to hit the back button, but naturally I have stewed over it ever since (overnight), and now I share the brainpain with all of you!

Comments

[recessional]

. . . I had to stop at the imposition of "democracy" and "constitutional monarchy" onto the Water Tribes. Af;wekja;lskdhfja;dghjksasdfa.

Also a factually incorrect statement: Yangchen is the only one of the past Avatars who actually tells Aang he should put on his big boy panties and kill the Fire Lord. The others tell him, variously: he must be decisive; there is no peace without justice; and he must actively shape his own destiny.

Which I've always found quite interesting, and implies to me that at some point Yangchen herself ran up against a position where her choices literally were a) kill someone or b) let a lot of other people be killed.

[sabra_n]

Wait, they actually called the Water Tribe government systems "democracy" and "constitutional monarchy"? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh god.

[recessional]

And I quote:

The Avatar’s rule is most akin not to the presumed democracy or constitutional monarchy of the Water Tribes, nor even to the federal monarchy of the Earth Kingdom, but to the fascist regime of the Fire Nation, and yet the show simultaneously glorifies the Avatar and vilifies the totalitarian Firelord.

I just. Like. *HANDS*

[sabra_n]

*cries*

[lizbee]

On the upside, now that making shit up is an acceptable meta technique, the possibilities are endless!

And yeah, I've always found Yangchem interesting for that reason. MAYBE KORRA CAN MEET HER.

[recessional]

It's also interesting to me that they honed in on Kyoshi's particular mode of owning responsibility without questioning or examining it. Kyoshi's action wasn't actually to kill Chin: her major act was to sever her island from the mainland. Since she took no action to avoid killing him, she (because she's Kyoshi and damn does the lady see in Black and White, even the little we've ever seen of her) accepts full moral responsibility for his death.

Except his death happened because he was too much of an idiot to take two or three steps back. Only through a very specific lens of responsibility and moral understanding does that make Kyoshi morally or criminally responsible for his death.

And also interesting to me that the opinions of one village - which explicitly do not show any signs of being shared by the rest of the Earth Kingdom - are being taken as, well, the final say on the matter.

ANYWAY. I will let this go now. Fr srs.

[lizbee]

I find Kyoshi interesting precisely because she takes responsibility for unintended consequences. (But I also don't think the circumstances of Chin's death remotely amount to murder on her part.)

[recessional]

Oh yes, to both.

[sohotrightnow]

The others tell him, variously: he must be decisive; there is no peace without justice; and he must actively shape his own destiny.

ughhhhhh THANK YOU. I've seen so many people echoing the "all the past Avatars were telling him to kill Ozai!" meme and I'm always like "wait, what? Was I missing something?" They were telling him that eventually he was going to have to grit his teeth and make a call, but they definitely weren't telling him which call that had to be.

Also: I totally never even picked up on that about Yangchen, that is SUCH an interesting take and I think I'm going to end up making it part of my own headcanon now. Thank you for that, as well!

[recessional]

AANG thought they were all telling him to kill Ozai, but let's face it: sometimes, Aang is not the brightest bulb in the string, and he's not so grate with detail, really. (This goes back to my frequent gripe in all directions that boils down to "just because the protagonist THINKS they know what's going on, doesn't mean they're RIGHT, or even that we the readers are supposed to think they are!")

The sadness in Yangchen's face when she listens to him expound on his moral philosophy always got to me - it's really well-drawn, and it really says to me her going "oh you poor kid, I am going to have to tell you a really horrible thing".

It was also, I think, a missed opportunity on the part of the writers to follow up on the fact that reality contradicts the guru's insistence that the only way to attain the Avatar state is detachment from worldly things: here is an Avatar saying that actually, no, as the Avatar you literally can't, because your entire purpose is worldly things, is the world. And given that Aang never really completes his "detachment" (he starts to before Azula zaps him, but his behaviour right at the beginning of S3 pretty clearly says that didn't stick in the slightest) and (in what I think is the REAL deus ex machina, not the lionturtle) a convenient rock unblocks his chi for him, Yangchen is at least partially right.

But they just sort of . . . skip that, post s2 ending, and ignore it and focus on his "omg I might have to kill" and then give us a Rock Spur of Destiny to unlock the Avatar state. A missed opportunity, I think.

tl;dr: Thoouuuughts, I have too many of them.

[selvage]

Bless this comment. I have nothing to add but *applause*

[crossedwires]

Have you seen jhameia's reply to someone who asked if Korra has a white saviour complex? (Although, I haven't seen the leaked pilot of Korra or read that article.)

[lizbee]

Not that specific one! I like it, though, and agree with it. (And wonder at the people writing the character off after 22 minutes, given the extent of character development in AtLA.)

[unjapanologist]

I only took a glance at some of those various "she's just like a white savior" links and then ran to save my brain, but that's what really weirds me out here: how people are going "Korra is XYZ!" without waiting to see how she's going to develop and learn from her experiences. Apparently, she grew up hidden away and sheltered/coddled in a compound her whole life. It would be pretty weird if she came out of there at seventeen completely in the know about privilege and nineteenth- and twentieth-century social theories, and able to apply that knowledge to her relationships with people she's just met.

If A:tLA had a history of presenting us with clearly flawed characters and glorifying them uncritically, I'd understand the knee-jerk reaction to Korra's arrogance and ignorance, but seriously. It's pretty damn obvious that she's not going to be presented as right about everything.

[recessional]

In a compound, in a culture and cultural structure COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the one she winds up in later, iirc (I have not yet actually watched it, because I hate waiting as it IS!)

[unjapanologist]

Yeah, that's exactly it - without devolving into spoilers, the compound is to Republic City like Ballykissangel is to Tokyo. I'm looking forward to seeing her adjust.

[lizbee]

I've already seen one Tumblr post saying that Korra's behaviour is so reprehensible that no future character development will ever excuse it. Sadly I didn't think to check whether that poster was a Zuko fan.

[unjapanologist]

Maybe it looked to you like Zuko was a violent little idiot who spouted all sorts of racist and classist nonsense and treated everyone he met like garbage, but he had a dick you are wrong. So there.

[danel4d]

Yay, it's one of those really fun things where there is so much wrong that it's hard to tell where to start. I find it impressive that despite mangling the examples to the point that most of the context is missing, he still needs to make rather worrying assertions - like, you say, having a big army means you have the right to do whatever the fuck you want; objecting to the warlike ways of your ruler makes you a traitor; sexism is the sole measure of social progress.

I still love it, though, since it's the counterbalancing extreme to the little fanboys complaining that the show wimped out from the moral imperative of teaching the children watching the importance of being willing to kill.

[lizbee]

Also, there's this comment:

Keep in mind our main source is called “Avatar: The Last Airbender”. As far as titles go, it seems about as balanced a source as “Fuhrer: The Last Aryan”.

Which honestly broke my brain. It's a Godwin. It's offensive without context. And when you consider that the Air Nomads are parallel to Tibet, it's just horrible.

Honestly, my conclusion is that there's something seriously wrong with that post and many of its commenters.

[recessional]

*horrified*

*HORRIFIED*

[lizbee]

I saw it at work mid-morning yesterday -- I hadn't paid close attention to the comments before -- and spent the REST OF THE DAY SITTING AT MY DESK, STEWING WITH RAGE.

How can someone say that? How can no one call it out for what it is?

[recessional]

I am stuck in this emotion: /o\

STUCK. THERE.

[kerravonsen]

having a really big army means you're really popular and thus justified to conquer places

What? What? What?
What rock has this person been living under?
I think we need to tie them to a chair and make them watch Firefly, Farscape, and Blake's 7.

[ambyr]

while the Fire Nation Army seems to have about equal numbers of men and women, the Earth Kingdom army is exclusively male

That's. . .two untrue statements, one after another. Nice going, guys.

[nextian]

Oh no, I got to "brute power" as describing Aang and my whole face squinched up like I bit into a lemon.

I like Overthinking It--but damn, that is a shit analysis to start with. Aang has more power, but the entirety of the plot is that his authority isn't vested in his use of it as power at all. What the fuck?

Also, plenty of people are offered the opportunity to opt out of the social contract with Aang! Aang patiently goes along with his trial in Avatar Day precisely because he doesn't think being the Avatar creates in him an exemption of the responsibilities of power, or some kind of right to rule slash govern, which is not a thing he's doing! WHAT THE FUCK!

[jin_fenghuang]

I am getting the very strong feeling that I should under no circumstances click that link.