Taking a constructive approach to RaceFail '09

[lizbee]

Conversation with a customer last night:

Her: "Do you know anything about Will Shetterly?"

Me: "Nothing to recommend him.  Have you read any Octavia Butler?"

(Useful fact: normally, asking "do you know anything about this author?" is not a particularly useful approach.  I can tell you that Author X writes Y books, and they are popular/critically acclaimed/criminally underappreciated, but I don't actually know much about the author.  I mean, I can answer the question, but I find it frustratingly vague.)

Comments

[drjon.livejournal.com]

I read his Dogsville a few years ago. It wasn't bad at all.

(Reply FTW, btw.)

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

I couldn't get into it; I didn't like the characters at all.

[emily-shore.livejournal.com]

*applause*

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

She bought two Octavia Butlers and also some Australian fantasy, so I consider it an evening well-spent.

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

Excellent. Thank you.

[stephiepenguin.livejournal.com]

woo.

was it awesome australian fantasy?

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Eh, Isobelle Carmody -- I can take her or leave her.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Fandom: it's a bit like the mafia.

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Yup!

Plus, I couldn't contribute anything to the actual Cultural Appropriation Debate of Doom, on account of being one of the people who needed to sit down, read and learn. But "don't out someone on the internet" is basic, and closely related to the other rule of Online Interaction 101: don't be a douche.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

That and 'thou shall not report this to legal.'

*eyes Peter David*

[nonelvis]

I believe that was the correct response, yes.

[pandarus.livejournal.com]

::applauds forever::

Oh, that's splendid. Good to know that his behaviour is not wholly without repercussions, however humble. Brava.

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

Most excellent response!

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Was he the one being all textbook Marxist and then outing people's IRL names?

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

That's the one!

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I am Marxist enough to think "classism going would kill all other isms!" is naive rather than racist. That part of the Left just has very set priorities.

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Probably, but if the end result is racism, does it make a difference?

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure that it is, but then I don't really know what he did. Just being more focussed on classism isn't the same as being racist about stuff. Maybe he is, idk, but I'm too right-on to write off the entire Marxist Left as default racists. Esp when they tend to make the effort and are generally internationalists and that stuff.

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

I'm too right-on to write off the entire Marxist Left as default racists...

I don't think anyone's doing that, but in the special case of Shetterly, yes, his behaviour is racist. Also asshattish in a general sort of way. Using (inaccurate) class labels to invalidate a person's argument, outing people's RL identities then demanding an apology from the victim -- I'm not an expert, but that goes beyond white+male privilege and into a whole realm of Raised By Wolves.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Like I say I don't really know what he did.

I do have sympathy for the idea that isms feed each other and capitalism and classism give us more reasons to hate each other.

On the other side of it I saw an Obama vs the KKK cartoon on the nets that managed to be horribly classist, so I think everyone has issues.

[kismeteve.livejournal.com]

In this case, he deliberately provoked an argument about social class to derail a discussion on race in SF. He was basically being a shit to people (and outed someone) because he didn't like the fact that they were calling him out on his white privilege.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

On purpose like?

[kismeteve.livejournal.com]

He'd deny it, but he was saying that certain people's arguments were invalid because they went to certain expensive colleges, which was basically part of a larger push to say that certain fans don't have the right to critique pro authors. It's just this huge display of nasty ego.

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

Meaningful action FTW!

[fannishnonsense]

Excellent! I hope more people do the same.

[iko.livejournal.com]

*claps*

[mousagetes.livejournal.com]

*cheers at this*

[jigglykat.livejournal.com]

That bit of fail (the writer, not your customer) kept me up till after 5 am this morning reading all the drama. Um, yeah. Wow. Your response is much better than what I would have said.

[tree_and_leaf]

Oh, well done!

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

I burned my family's dinner tonight reading up on Racefail '09, so I approve of your tactful and appropriate response.

*sniffs air in house, which is still tragically redolent of carbonized spaetzle*

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Me too -- not the burninating, but I only read the whole thing recently. I was too exhausted to make sense of it all when it was going through its first round.

Mostly I just found it unspeakably depressing, alternated with moments where the urge to beat my head against my keyboard grew overwhelming.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just skimmed some of the edited lowlights as they cropped up on my friendsfriends. Oh, the fail. Sigh.

[meril.livejournal.com]

Carbonized Spaetzle would make a fabulous bandname.

As something in your kitchen, however, it rather sucks. (And at least you burnt dinner on doing something informative, as opposed to watching the Brewers. >>)

[garpu.livejournal.com]

Haven't heard of him. Octavia Butler's good, though. Almost went to a reading of hers, and I'm kicking myself for not going.

[medie]

MADE. OF. WIN.

*applauds*

[kismeteve.livejournal.com]

*applause*

[aquila1nz.livejournal.com]

Oh, go you!

[merrilily.livejournal.com]

*high-fives my fellow bookseller*

(got here via f of flist)

I've also thought of surreptitiously pulling his books, and KC's, the next time we do a returns sweep. I probably won't, but it would be highly satisfying.

[elbales]

His interpersonal skills... lack. (Where lack means suck.) I do not care for his books. He has a bad case of anal-cranial inversion. Emma Bull's books, I like. Why has he published more books than she has? This is not fair. (Whining is proven to be Useful. Yes.)

[nixwilliams.livejournal.com]

:D

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

*applauds*

[izzybelbooks.livejournal.com]

That was awesome!

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

oh, i forgot to mention when i saw this that i love you.

<3<3<3

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

How graceful!

[--kali--.livejournal.com]

That was very nicely put.

(and also, please be recommending some awesome Australian fantasy.)

[aelfgyfu_mead]

Excellent answer!

I haven't read WS, to be honest, but I've lost any desire I might once have had.

Octavia Butler, on the other hand--I've only read a couple of her books so far, so I have a lot to look forward to!

[kerravonsen]

I didn't know what RaceFail '09 was when you posted this; now I do (no, I haven't waded through the whole thing, but I get the general idea) and I bow before your genius.