Stupid Avatar canon question

[lizbee]

Is it ever actually said, in the show (stuff Bryan and Mike say in interviews only counts if I like it) that Ursa is not a firebender?

Because I keep seeing it come up, but I don't remember anything about it in her (very brief) appearances, and it doesn't make sense to me. I can't imagine Azulon letting even a second son marry a non-bender, or Ozai being willing to do it. And in any case, she's Roku's granddaughter and Azula's mother. I'm pretty sure she can light a match, y'know?

This week's AtLA obsessions: Ursa and Azula. Is there any Azula redemption fic? It seems like there should be -- I mean, there's a whole massive Zhao redemption comic, and on the whole I'd say his crimes have greater spiritual consquences than Azula's. But she is a girl, and that's a taint that no amount of cleansing can remove.

(My other whim, for schmoopy Ursa/Hakoda fic, was somehow answered. Only the fic is too schmoopy. I NEED A PROPER BALANCE, PEOPLE! MY WHIMS, CATER TO THEM! Or I'll have to write the damn thing myself. And we all know how that ends up.)

Comments

[myniamh]

I have a feeling that any redemption fic about Azula would only weaken her character. She'd have to have a complete change of how she sees the world and her place in it which, of course, is IN CHARGE. I'd like a redemption fic where she's faking it to manipulate her way back onto the throne! :)

[lizbee]

I guess the question is, how much of Azula's, um, emotional/moral dysfunction is natural to her personality, and how much is the result of Ozai being the Worst Father Since The Greek God Who Ate His Children? I tend to go back and forth; her early cruelty suggests it's natural, but had she been raised in a different environment, it might have been channeled into healthier directions.

[myniamh]

hmm, I have no idea. Her talent at leadership, let alone bending is probably blocking me from seeing her in a different situation. She seems so natural at it, I can see her being less cruel after a different childhood but she'd still want to do everything her way. It'd have to be pretty damn epic.

I'm not certain bending is necessarily passed through families. I don't think Toph's parents are benders, and she's the greatest earthbender ever. Maybe being Roku's grandaughter was enough. I think it's canon that all Ang's people are benders isn't it? Not all the fire nation are but I'm going to assume it's a fair chunk, not like Waterbenders and the slightly more numerous earthbenders.

Maybe it's like Squibs and if you have too many benders in one family it'll turn off?

[wolfy_writing]

I think redemption of Azula could be interesting. Tricky to do well (redemption-fic are notoriously prone to sucking the awesome out of characters), but if someone had a good feel for her, it could be amazing!

[lizbee]

Yeah, I don't actually know how to go about it, but I think it's potentially really interesting. What's the point in suffering a total breakdown and apparent personality disintegration if you don't come out of it a better person?

[fulselden]

Ooh! *Raises hand in class* (also, ahem, hi) - I was just talking about the non-bending Ursa issue on my journal, and saying that the reason I can never imagine her as a bender is that their entire take on her was so very much a matter of 'here is the docile noble wife mama-bear who lives for her children (or, well, at least one of them) and will also kill for them' that seeing her do something as flashy as firebending is beyond me. But then they also went and made all the Fire royals (apart from Zuko for most of the show, oh Zuko) super-awesome benders, which unless we're meant to assume they're blessed by Agni or something suggests breeding for fieryness and confuses the issue no end. But anyway! Sadly I too have found no decent Azula-redemption fic. Alas. I feel your explanation may be the correct one, as well, gah.

[lizbee]

"I was just talking about the non-bending Ursa issue on my journal, and saying that the reason I can never imagine her as a bender is that their entire take on her was so very much a matter of 'here is the docile noble wife mama-bear who lives for her children (or, well, at least one of them) and will also kill for them' that seeing her do something as flashy as firebending is beyond me."

I have this serious weakness for stories about women who grow up being told that they're powerless and weak, and believing it, right up until the day they're pushed to the brink and discover just how strong and powerful they are. So for that reason, I'm really drawn to the idea of Ursa, even though she never appeared outside of her children's unreliable memories and hallucinations.

[fulselden]

right up until the day they're pushed to the brink and discover just how strong and powerful they are

Oh, for reals, me too. And obviously it's canon that Ursa was pretty damn ruthless when she had to be, and we do only see her through Zuko's rose-tinted memories and Azula's glass-o-conscience - I just can't dissociate my image of her from what we see there (hmm - not sure what this reveals about my general assumptions re wives n' mothers in fiction...). But I would love to read about Ursa: fearsome bender!

[weaver]

I ... it has never occurred to me that Ursa wouldn't have been a bender. Is that a thing now? These crazy kids.

Can I have an Old Mama Fandom hat?


also: And we all know how that ends up.

IT ENDS UP EXCELLENTLY. EXCELLENTLY.

[lizbee]

"I ... it has never occurred to me that Ursa wouldn't have been a bender. Is that a thing now? These crazy kids."

Yeah, apparently. A couple of the wikis etc were like, "Ursa. Powers: NONE." And I was like, SCREW YOU, MAN! JUST BECAUSE SHE'S NOT CHUCKING LIGHTNING AROUND DOESN'T MEAN SHE'S NOT WITHOUT HER OWN MAD SKILLZ.

"IT ENDS UP EXCELLENTLY. EXCELLENTLY."

NO ONE WILL WANT TO READ MY FIC ABOUT URSA AND HAKODA SNEAKING AROUND HAVING AN AFFAIR IN THE NORTHERN WATER TRIBE CITY.

Except Batu, and he'd only read it so he could tease Hakoda.

I have loved your icon for so many years. Learning that it's Iroh only makes it better.

[weaver]

FIC ABOUT URSA AND HAKODA SNEAKING AROUND HAVING AN AFFAIR IN THE NORTHERN WATER TRIBE CITY. GIVE IT TO ME OMG. GIVE IT TO ME RIGHT NOW. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. OTHERWISE YOU MAY DIE.


Man, I always figured the Fire Nation royals were way, way too inbred not to have firebenders for every possible parental influence ever. I don't know if it's canon or fanon that only the royal family (and Zhao, who could totally be related) have the gold eyes, but whichever, that clearly means that firebenders are inbred.

Then again, Ursa's one of those silly wimmens, and they don't need to have powers anyway, I guess. (Azula just tried to kill me inside my head.)

IT IS THE BEST ICON. APPROPRIATE IN EVERY SITUATION.

[juliekarasik]

If you're looking for Azula redemption stuff, I'd recommend The Heart of Fire Trilogy:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4834864/1/Heart_of_Fire
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5010226/1/Path_of_Fire
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5248250/1/Soul_of_Fire

[lizbee]

Thanks!

[alias_sqbr]

I have vague ideas of a cracky crossover into something totally random(*) where there's an Evil Overlord who Azula decides she doesn't like, and so she joins forces with the good guys and is awesome but still actually evil deep down and saves the day despite herself.

EDIT: Wait, the reason it's making me think of DA:O is that I'm halfway through a DA:O fic along vaguely similar lines. Maybe I should finish that first...

(*)My first thought is of course "Dragon Age: Origins" because that's my answer to everything. But Azula vs the Master could be pretty cool.

[bats-eye.livejournal.com]

If I remember my post-show plunge into ff.net correctly, there's loads and loads of Azula redemption fic. Unfortunately, none of the ones I found were actually any good.

Also a surprisingly large percentage of them paired her with Haru (the earthbending kid with the comedy mustache) which proves once again that I will never understand fandom.

[fulselden]

Also a surprisingly large percentage of them paired her with Haru

HAHAHA. I, UM, THINK THERE IS AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT.

I mean, an explanation of sorts. Oh fandom, never knowingly under-literal-minded.

[melengro]

There is at least some Azula redemption fic (it's not usually very good but it does exist. Some of it IS pretty okay but I'm not sure where exactly I found it), and quite a few fans of/people who are interested in Azula, but for whatever reason these people do not seem to be a fic-inclined lot.

Azula is much more liked or at least respected than a similar character would be in I think most other fandoms.

[bats-eye.livejournal.com]

Yeah, from what I've seen Azula's widely loved (for a definition of loved that mostly means 'thought of as a great character'.)

[nextian]

I read an Azula/Sokka fic which you can find through delicious, which actually I really enjoyed except for that it was a redemption fic. It's quite a common theme! I don't know, I love Azula at her worst, and I'd love her to sort of meet Toph in the middle or something, but I think only the best possible writer could seduce me into loving a fic about her becoming good in the way that the main cast is good.

e: Found it. I feel like I should point out that I liked it in comparison with most of the rest of Avatar fandom.

[lizbee]

Well, the first chapter is pretty amazingly Sokkatastic, but is this going to involve Azula being redeemed through love for Sokka? 'Cause I love me some Sokka, but he's not that amazing.

[holyschist]

I got the distinct feeling that Ursa was not a firebender, but it bugged me for all the reasons you mention--I just don'y know about the Firelord marrying a non-bender (which raises some obstacles for Zuko and Mai, and it's one of the reasons I don't buy them having an arranged marriage as children). IDK.

[infiniteviking]

I don't remember that ever being said in the show, and would be surprised if it was true. Why WOULDN'T she be a firebender. B|

If Azula could be redeemed without going sweet and apologetic and Katara-like because ~good girls aren't allowed to be evil~, I'd read that. Come to think of it, both she and Zhao were ruthless in the name of personal glory.

[thedivinegoat]

I've just come across a fantastic Azula redemption fic on AO3, I apologise if this has already been recced to you, or you've already found it -

水火 by trascendenza

[lizbee]

I found it, like, an hour ago, and have it open in a tab to read when I get home!

[nextian]

fff haha I came back to this post to link the same thing!