lizbee: (DW: Clara)
[personal profile] lizbee
So Clara has been reminding me of Mel, and then this made me think of "The Ultimate Foe", but not shite.

So, yes, I was reminded of "The Ultimate Foe" for some reason, with all the old Doctors, and Clara venturing into dangerous parts to save the Doctor, just as Mel did. (Sadly there were no digressions into random offices and the set of "Love Never Dies". WAIT, DID I SAY "SADLY"?) And then they mentioned the Valeyard, and I kind of felt like my joy was complete.


One feeling is that it was kind of a mess, and not just because the compositing of old and new footage was pretty rough. But it was a good mess, in that the characterisation held up better than the plotting, and although I still don't feel like Clara has been consistently written over the half-season, at least now we can settle her mystery and move on.

Although I'm slightly disappointed that she's neither the Twelfth Doctor nor Scaroth, Last of the Jagaroth.

I'm very glad that no one died permanently, because I really love the Paternoster Gang. On the other hand, Neve McIntosh is brilliant, and I could watch her angsting over Jenny ALL DAY. And I'm glad Moffat found a way to incorporate a new Scotland joke. They've been a bit thin on the ground since Amy left.

People are saying this is the end of River's story? I don't see that myself. Chronology-wise, we last saw her in jail, and we've got a lot of years to cover between there and the library. And I don't think her projecting herself from the library removed herself from that existence -- it's more like emailing a copy of yourself as an attachment than printing out a hardcopy then deleting the original file. I think?

I was a bit eyerolly at Clara's whole "I was born to save the Doctor" thing, but then I realised I was being literal, ie, the number one mistake of fandom these days. ("But 'The Doctor's Wife' was all about the TARDIS!") Then the Doctor started talking about choosing your name and identity, and yup, that's what Clara chose to be, and this is her self-identification. She's an ordinary girl who became extraordinary, and that's like the ideal companion arc.

THEORY TIME! John Hurt is not the Valeyard, although I'm sure we're meant to think that he is, but the Eighth Doctor in his last years. People who we didn't see once in Clara's running and saving: Eight. People who have done terrible things for good reasons, ie, destroying Gallifrey: Eight. (Probably.) Unlike the Valeyard, who's mostly into evil in its most bureaucratic form.

ANYWAY, that was all quite good, but I hope we get better writing of Clara in the future.

Date: 2013-05-18 11:27 pm (UTC)
nostalgia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nostalgia
I thought it was post-River on the Doctor's timeline, so that he'd been avoiding the goodbye but it was somehow over.

Date: 2013-05-18 11:33 pm (UTC)
nostalgia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nostalgia

Date: 2013-05-19 08:59 am (UTC)
nineveh_uk: Cover illustration for "Strong Poison" in pulp fiction style with vampish Harriet. (Strong Poison)
From: [personal profile] nineveh_uk
Oh I do hope so. I must admit that I have been thinking "Oh no! No more River Song!" and trying to accept it as a choice to move the long-term plot on, but I adore River so I would really rather not have to accept that.

Date: 2013-05-18 11:47 pm (UTC)
marymac: Noser from Middleman (Default)
From: [personal profile] marymac
Re: Eight - Exactly what I thought. Eight at the bitter, bitter end.

ALSO I am EUROVISION DRUNK and currently watching it for the fourth time and this is an extraordinarily prettily shot episode.

Date: 2013-05-18 11:57 pm (UTC)
drho: (11 - Sparkle Eleven)
From: [personal profile] drho
I thought I saw a glimpse of Eight walking in front of Clara, right after Three. It was really quick, so I might be wrong.

I suspect we're going to get a retconned new Nine, in place of Eccleston. Eight probably regenerated into the new Nine, who stopped the Time War and then regenerated into Nine and 3/4 or whatever fandom will call him.

Date: 2013-05-19 12:17 am (UTC)
drho: Picture of a McNuggetini, a cocktail made with McNuggets, barbecue sauce, vodka, and a chocolate shake. (McNuggetini)
From: [personal profile] drho
Is it? I thought he'd regenerate into 9, because I had the feeling he was a Doctor before Eleven and the only regeneration we haven't seen is Eight to Nine. But if that idea is on whistleblowing posts, it will probably turn out to be as true as Harriet the Red Dalek.

Date: 2013-05-19 01:24 am (UTC)
neadods: (Default)
From: [personal profile] neadods
I really really hope it is. I'd seen the rumor and ranted about it back at my place - if it's true, it's going to poison my memories of my favorite Doctor *and* lead to infinitely renewed arguments that the BBC totes has to cancel the entire show just because the Doctor ran out of regenerations. Because that makes such good creative and business sense. *eyeroll*

Date: 2013-05-19 01:22 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jennaw
I loved this episode so hard. I cried (and I'm not a big crier) through the "see you later" farewell scene. I just thought it was fantastic in the messy way of Moffat's finales, all of which I've loved dearly. But this had so much effing heart and I'm excited about the set-up for the anniversary episode. V. EXCITED JOHN HURT YAYS!

Date: 2013-05-19 02:00 am (UTC)
fahrbotdrusilla: ([tdkr] Catwoman)
From: [personal profile] fahrbotdrusilla
Him being old Eight crossed my mind too, or the actual Ninth Doctor, since she said she saw eleven on him.

Date: 2013-05-19 03:57 am (UTC)
ellen_fremedon: overlapping pages from Beowulf manuscript, one with a large rubric, on a maroon ground (Default)
From: [personal profile] ellen_fremedon
I like your Old Eight theory!

Date: 2013-05-19 09:14 am (UTC)
kerrypolka: Contemporary Lois Lane with cellphone (Default)
From: [personal profile] kerrypolka
I enjoyed it while I was watching it, but IDK, ultimately I've been feeling like stories have been getting more About The Doctor, which is exciting in the moment but feels kind of cheap and empty afterwards? (I also really really really want to get into Clara but I just CANNOT GET A HOLD ON HER CHARACTER.)

On River

Date: 2013-05-19 09:31 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] londonkds
I thought that this episode implied what had actually upset the Doctor in "The Snowman": after "Manhattan" he travelled with River for a time until he realised that he'd run out of actual meetings with her before the Library and her death.

I thought as well that the idea of River "projecting" herself might have been an attempt to make the fans who read "Forest of the Dead" as her being "trapped into domesticity" happier.

Date: 2013-05-19 10:54 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
There was a time I said to my husband "That's Paul McGann" but I could have been wrong. We didn't notice Tennant, actually, and wondered about it.

Date: 2013-05-19 11:49 am (UTC)
kass: Oswin knocking on the TARDIS door (Clara)
From: [personal profile] kass
Hi hi! Here via [personal profile] ellen_fremedon, who mentioned (in a comment on my post on this ep) your theory that he might be old Eight. I like that theory. I'm also open to the notion that he's the regeneration after Eight and we never saw him because the Doctor has been basically dissociating from the part of himself which chose to push the metaphorical button and, you know, wipe out his entire people along with the Daleks. (Ellen also mentioned that the Master's had something like 17 bodies, so the "only 12 regenerations" thing is probably a matter of Time Lord Law, e.g. something that the Doctor can break without a second thought. *relief* :-)

I came out of this ep with SO many feelings. I continue to adore River Song beyond the telling. (And that kiss --! adkflja;fkdsaf;kj goddamn. :-) And I love your point that Clara is an ordinary girl who chose to become extraordinary. She chose to become the One Who Saves the Doctor, just as the Doctor chooses to be the One Who Saves Others. The title "The Name of the Doctor" is almost a red herring, in that way; the point is, his name is the name that he's chosen, the name we've always known, and what matters is the names / the identities we choose to embody.

Date: 2013-05-19 11:39 pm (UTC)
ladymercury_10: (Clara Oswin Oswald)
From: [personal profile] ladymercury_10
John Hurt is not the Valeyard, although I'm sure we're meant to think that he is, but the Eighth Doctor in his last years.
Ooh, interesting theory! Is Eight really the only one who doesn't show up?

Date: 2013-05-21 10:42 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mengu
Eight walks past Clara for a second. (Apparently there is a Two&Eight story we never saw)

Date: 2013-05-20 05:57 pm (UTC)
doyle: tardis (Default)
From: [personal profile] doyle
People are saying this is the end of River's story? I don't see that myself.

I don't see it either; I thought it was setting up for a post-Library story (I'm also pretty convinced now that Charlotte/CAL is another echo of Clara)


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