OldSchool Who: "Silver Nemesis", "Kinda", "Battlefield", "The Mysterious Planet"

[lizbee]

Watching Classic Who on my iPod is great, because it's convenient (and flattering to not-so-special effects), but also annoying, because then I forget if I had anything to say about it.

So here's a catch up:

"Silver Nemesis" was nowhere near as terrible as I'd been led to believe.  Yes, it's basically the same plot as "Remembrance of the Daleks", but with extra lulz in the form of time travellers from the past, and also some very bland jazz.  It also confirmed my longstanding suspicions, that the Cybermen have been crap ever since the show went into colour.  I am lame enough in my love for Seven 'n' Ace that the bits I liked best were when they were sitting on the grass, hanging out.  I know, I'm so lame.

Also, just how many weapons of mass destruction did the Doctor take when he left Gallifrey?  I have this mental image of him going through the arsenals, "Hmm, yes, a Hand of Omega, yes, yes -- DON'T TOUCH THAT, SUSAN! -- a device to control the walls between dimensions?  Pah, what possible use could I have for it?"  And so on.

"Kinda" made me wish there was some kind of archive or index of meta, so I could just click on a couple of drop-down menus and have a list of "Kinda" essays before me.  It's like, yes, this is one of the high points of the Davison-era (if not '80s Who all together), and yet, wow, for an anti-colonialist story, we're really making free with the noble savage stereotypes, aren't we?  The problem with the Kinda is similar to the problem with the Hath in "The Doctor's Daughter": presenting a race that doesn't speak sends you right past othering and into infantilisation.  The Kinda were less offensive than the Hath, mostly because they were actually part of a good story.

In short: I wouldn't go so far as to join Stephen Moffat in saying this is one of the best Who stories ever, but it's up there.  Colonialist issues aside, the Kinda were more fleshed out and interesting than the average alien species.  And multiple strong female characters (of a wide range of ages) are always welcome.  The Doctor totally had a brief fling with Todd, and probably visits her once in a while, whenever he can actually operate the TARDIS.  (That actress also played Rhys's mother in Torchwood, but let's not go there.)

Oh yeah, and this really wasn't the time for Janet Fielding to fail at acting.  There were moments where Matthew Waterhouse was more convincing, and ... let's not even think about that.  We've always known that Fielding's a bit limited, but bits of this were just embarrassing.

I watched "Battlefield" (again) yesterday with suburbannoir and sajee, who was seeing it for the first time.  I think my overall impression is the same as sajee's: why hasn't New Who given us awesome female characters like Ace and Bambera?  We get glimpses, but they're rarely fleshed out, and they usually die or are evil (especially the older women).

Also, the best romantic pairing in Doctor Who, bar none, is Bambera/Ancelyn.  They come from two different worlds!  Literally!  But they just click so well.  And it's quite amazing how you feel like you know Bambera really well, within minutes of her first appearance.  I know everyone's hanging out for Lethbridge-Stewart to return to New Who, but I think I'd be satisfied with the other Brigadier.

And, finally, last night I watched the first episode of "The Mysterious Planet".  And, you know we're living in an age of horrors when you've seen teenage girls getting about in the same thing Peri was wearing.  (Yellow blazer -- very cute, yellow wrap top, shiny tapered pants...).  For a brief, shining moment, Nicola Bryant's American accent was perfect, but that quickly passed.  At least the Doctor has stopped calling her fat.  And Tom Chadbon's in it, which is a bit win.

Comments

[mad-and-crazy.livejournal.com]

Also, just how many weapons of mass destruction did the Doctor take when he left Gallifrey? I have this mental image of him going through the arsenals, "Hmm, yes, a Hand of Omega, yes, yes -- DON'T TOUCH THAT, SUSAN! -- a device to control the walls between dimensions? Pah, what possible use could I have for it?" And so on.

Write it! Please! It must happen.

[tree_and_leaf]

*seconds*

[ravenskyewalker.livejournal.com]

*thirds*

[aceofannwn.livejournal.com]

Definitely!

[aceofannwn.livejournal.com]

actually, could I write that fic? Would anyone mind?

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Sure, go right ahead!

[aceofannwn.livejournal.com]

thanks!

*puts it in bunnies to do soon box*

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

I feel like such a bad Davison-era fangirl, because I really don't like Kinda. Todd is lovely, of course (chemistry, eee!), and Hindle (YOU CAN'T MEND PEOPLE), and I am always on for an awful bright pink plastic snake to round off a story. I even like all the Tegan trip-out bits, because the lighting's quite nice and she gets something interesting to do for a change. But then I just get stuck on the 'not-we' and the grass skirts and the double helix necklaces and AAAAAAAAARGH MAKE IT GO AWAY NOW.

I watched The Dominators on my Ipod while in Italy. There's something magnificently headfucky about the collision of technologies there.

Oh, and re clothing: I saw something uncannily like Mel's Paradise Towers monstrosity in a shop the other day. Woe.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

It used to bother me: how do the Kinda know about the double helix? Is it just Noble Savage magicalness?

[lizvogel.livejournal.com]

There's a strong implication that the Kinda are part of a culture that cycles from primitive to technological to primitive again (that whole "wheel turns" schtick), and right now they're in the primitive phase. Only, since they've got that whole nifty race-memory mystical thing, they remember bits of the technological phase. Or at least enough to maintain symbols from it.

(Butting in, because I adore "Kinda" and can go on slightly short of forever about it....)

[drjon.livejournal.com]

Bambera was frakkin BRILLIANT! Why the hell haven't we seen her back? Stoopid Rusty...

Oh, sorry. Didn't mean to rant there.

SOMEONE ELSE WHO SHIPS FIVE/TODD YAY

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Like David Tennant, Peter Davison had remarkably fine onscreen chemistry with older women. FIVE & TEN = THE MILF-HUNTER DOCTORS.

That actress also played Rhys's mother in Torchwood, but let's not go there.

Why not? After all, it's my firm belief that Ianto is the child of divorced parents Cliff Jones and Jo Grant Jones Grant ... which, since I hold it as fanon that Jack and Jo did the deed during her UNIT days, would make for some fun visits by Momma Jo to the Hub ...

And my thoughts on "Kinda" can be found here. (http://box-in-the-box.livejournal.com/65959.html)

[infiniteviking]

All episodes I haven't seen yet, with the exception of The Mysterious Planet (seriously, he called Peri fat!? He's one to talk! *cackles*) -- her outfit was indeed horrid, but they were getting on so well by that time; it's a shame that ended so soon.

As usual, your commentaries make me grin and wish the series had never been stopped. And I was fully prepared to hate Bambera because she's not the Brigadier, but you've persuaded me to give her a chance when I finally watch Battlefield.

[episkopos.livejournal.com]

(seriously, he called Peri fat!? He's one to talk! *cackles*)

As far as I remember, their first series had a lot of business along just those lines.

[infiniteviking]

Which is the problem -- I haven't seen most of it. *sheeeeepish* That'll have to change as quick as possible.

[wshaffer.livejournal.com]

I've only ever seen "Silver Nemesis" with live commentary by Mysterious Theatre 337: http://www.shillpages.com/mt337/index2.php?pz=mtnews2. Which is definitely the way to see it.

I still haven't seen "Battlefield" - I'm really looking forward to its Region 1 DVD release.

[sajee.livejournal.com]

BAMBERA AND ANCELYN: THE BEATING SHIT UP ADVENTURES

I too can plan spin offs.

[st-aurafina.livejournal.com]

If Brigadier Bambera showed up on New Who, I think I would die of joy.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Also, the best romantic pairing in Doctor Who, bar none, is Bambera/Ancelyn.

"Winifred, art thou betrothed?" is one of my favorite lines from Doctor Who. Ancelyn is so adorable right then.

[ravenskyewalker.livejournal.com]

I am lame enough in my love for Seven 'n' Ace that the bits I liked best were when they were sitting on the grass, hanging out.  I know, I'm so lame.

That's lame? That's not lame. That's fun. It was fun to see that they (the characters and the actors) obviously enjoyed each other's company.

I liked "Kinda" back in the day, but haven't seen it in years. I thought that a lot of Davison stories were, well, beige, but that was fascinating. I appreciated the old female shaman figure with the big, gorgeous eyes, but can't even remember her name any longer, sigh. Also, yes, the Fifth Doctor and Todd seemed far too right for each other, which wasn't territory that Classic Who approached very often. *grin*

why hasn't New Who given us awesome female characters like Ace and Bambera?

Someone needs to explain this to me, too. I think we've regressed all over again in how we see women, but that discussion tends to be dangerous, so I'll avoid it.

How awesome is that little scene where the Doctor sneaks up on those two sleeping warriors, Bambera and Ancelyn, loudly pops a bag at them to make them leap up and wildly look for the danger, and casually walks out again, calling "Good morning!" LOL

[cryptile.livejournal.com]

I am lame enough in my love for Seven 'n' Ace that the bits I liked best were when they were sitting on the grass, hanging out.

The fact that they can do this and nothing else and be AWESOME just doing that says everything that needs to be said about Seven 'n' Ace.

It also confirmed my longstanding suspicions, that the Cybermen have been crap ever since the show went into colour.

Shiny metal jumpsuits crammed with tall, sculpted actors with perfect buttocks didn't happen until color, though!

why hasn't New Who given us awesome female characters like Ace and Bambera?

Because then you'd have to know how to write for people.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

Just saw "Mysterious Planet" myself for the first time a few days ago. Sad to say, my reaction to Peri's outfit was "Oh yes! The '80s!"

I remember when people really did go around dressed like that. Not me, though. I never owned a bright yellow blazer. Never.

Really, it wasn't yellow. Although it was, alas, bright. And, er, green.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

"Silver Nemesis" was nowhere near as terrible as I'd been led to believe. Yes, it's basically the same plot as "Remembrance of the Daleks", but with extra lulz in the form of time travellers from the past, and also some very bland jazz.

I like Peinforte, just it does not really need her AND Cybermen AND Nazis. Much of it is a bit fail but IT IS JUST ABOUT POSSIBLE that I am too mean about it.


Also, just how many weapons of mass destruction did the Doctor take when he left Gallifrey?

What, you don't stock up on WMDs every time you leave the house?


wow, for an anti-colonialist story, we're really making free with the noble savage stereotypes, aren't we?

I like my new theory that they are Too Good To Be True because just as the Mara fears itself the writer was scared of himself and didn't want to make the Kinda too much like real people to avoid having to look at evil.

[episkopos.livejournal.com]

"Silver Nemesis" was nowhere near as terrible as I'd been led to believe. Yes, it's basically the same plot as "Remembrance of the Daleks", but with extra lulz in the form of time travellers from the past, and also some very bland jazz.

I like Peinforte, just it does not really need her AND Cybermen AND Nazis. Much of it is a bit fail but IT IS JUST ABOUT POSSIBLE that I am too mean about it.

I've caught myself thinking that as well. It's a rather glaring example of McCoy era "quick let's get more Themes in there" story construction, but the traitorous little voices are saying "yes, but it's not Attack of the Cybermen bad, maybe we should watch it again."

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I also give too much weight to the rubbishness of "As you know, Ace, I built you this ghetto blaster when..."

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

why hasn't New Who given us awesome female characters like Ace and Bambera? We get glimpses, but they're rarely fleshed out, and they usually die or are evil (especially the older women

My theory is that it's not so much a matter of sexism as of one of RTD's deleterious influences from Joss Whedon being hostility to consciously-developed competence.

[neutralalienist.livejournal.com]

Chatting and sitting on the grass were clearly the best bits of Silver Nemesis.

I love Kinda to pieces, but you're right - having more of the Kinda be accessible individuals would have made it quite a lot better. Have you seen Snakedance?

Bambera/Ancelyn is how you do epic romance.

Clearly, the Time Lords lost the war because the Doctor nicked all their weapons. Bastard.

[melengro.livejournal.com]

I really, really love both Brigadiers.

Like REALLY. And Ancelyn is just so great.

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Silver Nemesis is quite far from being my favourite Seven story, but it has its moments; Lady Peinforte, the so-stupid-it's-great thing with the gold coins and stupid Cybermen stupidly shooting each other, and Seven and Ace being, well, all Seveny and Acey.

Battlefield is a story I like even while recognising that, on an objective level, it has a hell of a lot wrong with it. Seven and Ace again, and the Brig, and Bambera and Ancelyn, and random Tennyson, and Morgaine and the Destroyer, all make it worthwhile, even if the action bits are kind of rubbish and the story is at times a bit of a head-scratcher.

[aceofannwn.livejournal.com]

Also, just how many weapons of mass destruction did the Doctor take when he left Gallifrey? I have this mental image of him going through the arsenals, "Hmm, yes, a Hand of Omega, yes, yes -- DON'T TOUCH THAT, SUSAN! -- a device to control the walls between dimensions? Pah, what possible use could I have for it?" And so on.

*snickers*
Maybe he took everything he didn't think the Time Lords were responsible enough to have? Like, "I'll give you back the slingshot when I know you've learnt to respect others," to a small child.

[indigopurple.livejournal.com]

Never watched Kinda, but it was one of my favourite novelisations: actually, most of the Davidson-era novels were quite rad. Terminus, Snakedance, and Androzani I remember liking an awful lot.