This is probably a bad sign

[lizbee]

Apparently my new thing is to get angry when people call Azula evil. I mean, she only invaded a city, tried to kill her brother, came up with a viable plan for world-wide genocide and also burned that guy's house down that one time. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REDEEMED FROM WORSE!

...also, you can't diagnose sociopathy in a fourteen year old, and her obsessive touching devotion to her father and psychological vulnerability after Mai and Ty Lee betray her suggest that, however much Ozai tried, she's not a fully-blown sociopath.

ALSO, when Zuko confronted the futility of the destiny Ozai had chosen for him, he developed emo-itis fell into an angst coma became physically ill and feverish for a few days. When Azula is confronted with her ultimate powerlessness in her father's eyes, she has a full-blown psychotic breakdown. THEY ARE NOT THAT DIFFERENT.

TL;DR it bugs me when people say she has no soul. In serious meta, I mean; obviously Zuko has had cause to wonder.

I was going to compare Azula to Jaime Lannister for some reason, being that they're both considered monsters, but he gets a manly redemption arc. But then I remembered the other thing Jaime is best known for, aside from regicide. *awkward*

Comments

[lorax]

I always thought that pushing Azula (and to a lesser extent Zuko) into the good/evil paradigm made no sense. They were both raised with the Fire Kingdom's methods being considered RIGHT. Zuko had his mother's influence, early on, which Azula says she never received in he same way, and then Iroh, who Azula had rejected as a role model, likely because she was younger and had more of her father's views on Iroh's weakness to shape her opinion without being old enough to form her own opinions when she idolized her father and wanted his approval. (Granted this is mostly assumption on my part and not strong timeline-fu.)

Azula's moral compass was shaped by her father, and even though she had those tendencies as a child. . . there are a lot of children who do AWFUL things without fully understanding the connotations of it. Morality, fairness, the "right" thing, I always assumed her upbringing wouldn't prioritize these things. Her father's priority was clearly CONQUERING and thus winning and he could give a shit about methods, so why would she have learned to when she saw that caring about those things only led to Zuko being seen as weak, anyway?

Though my insane love of Azula may shape my thoughts too much. Heh. I still wish we'd gotten a little more time to watch her unravel and they'd made it less sudden, because I think it would have come across as more heartbreaking, in addition to messed up, if it had been.

I can't really speak on the comparison to Jaime yet, since I'm only just reading the first book now and I doubt the show is exactly the same.

[lizbee]

I'm going to come back and answer this comment properly tonight, because my phone is not that great for proper conversation, but I AGREE.

And re: Zuko and Azula not really fitting neatly into the good/evil paradigm, that goes for most of the Fire Nation characters. I keep seeing comments at Mark Watches Avatar, saying they don't like Mai because she is insufficiently aware of her privilege, and I'm like, "...yes? That is the result of her background and upbringing, and anything else would MAKE NO SENSE."

[lizbee]

Now that I'm home, I can reply properly!

Zuko had his mother's influence, early on, which Azula says she never received in he same way, and then Iroh, who Azula had rejected as a role model, likely because she was younger and had more of her father's views on Iroh's weakness to shape her opinion without being old enough to form her own opinions when she idolized her father and wanted his approval. (Granted this is mostly assumption on my part and not strong timeline-fu.)

No, that timeline works. Although I think your comments re: Iroh's influence, and Azula's rejection thereof, also apply to Ursa. Azula seems like a classic case of parental alienation, where Ozai has deliberately encouraged Azula to reject Ursa, and to see Ursa's attempts at discipline as unreasonable. I mean, my only evidence there is that Azula's hallucination of Ursa is affectionate and kind, which doesn't mesh with Azula's perception of her as distant or unloving. And my work has brought me in contact with a lot of cases like that, and it ... fits.

I still wish we'd gotten a little more time to watch her unravel and they'd made it less sudden, because I think it would have come across as more heartbreaking, in addition to messed up, if it had been.

Oh, me too. It's the only thing I wish I could change about the series -- one extra episode in the third season, dealing with Azula's breakdown and Mai and Ty Lee in prison, and then the finale as a movie-length special. WHY SO UNCOOPERATIVE, NICKELODEON? LOOK, I'M SENDING YOU TELEPATHIC MESSAGES FROM THE FUTURE AND EVERYTHING!

[lorax]

I mean, my only evidence there is that Azula's hallucination of Ursa is affectionate and kind, which doesn't mesh with Azula's perception of her as distant or unloving. And my work has brought me in contact with a lot of cases like that, and it ... fits.
That was how I saw it too, where her perception was shaped by what Ozai told her, and then in retrospect her hallucination was echoing the reality a little more, which actually helped contribute to her breakdown, maybe. I'd imagine the floating idea that maybe SHE'D driven her mother (and subsequently her brother and her uncle and best friends) away based on the preconception that Ozai was A, right, and B, cared about her, and facing that she might possibly be wrong would add to her problems. I don't think she had really ACKNOWLEDGED that line of thinking at all yet by the end of the show, but I'm sure the thoughts lurked after Ozai essentially threw her away because he had what he wanted.

It's the only thing I wish I could change about the series -- one extra episode in the third season, dealing with Azula's breakdown and Mai and Ty Lee in prison, and then the finale as a movie-length special. WHY SO UNCOOPERATIVE, NICKELODEON? LOOK, I'M SENDING YOU TELEPATHIC MESSAGES FROM THE FUTURE AND EVERYTHING!
Yes Yes Yes! I mean, I *love* Zuko's journey and Aang and the rest of them, but I feel like I would have sacrificed some time from their story if I could have gotten a little more EVEN ending to Azula's. I don't think it's at all an OOC ending for her, and I did like it, but I felt like with one more episode to sprawl out and foreshadow, it would have been much more satisfying.